Sons & Daughters Watching/rewatching/discussing The Aussie Hit Show

Discussion in 'Australian & New Zealand Soaps' started by JingeBellsROG, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. Mel O'Kalikimaka

    Mel O'Kalikimaka Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh lord. Things have shifted profoundly once again.

    #382 is so heart-poundingly good I'm in love with the series all over again. It's Sons And Daughters gold.

    At its heart is everything that makes this series fly. Conflict; misdirection; continuity; and Patricia scheming for all she's worth.


    The episode begins with a recap of the previous episode's final scene in which we see Pat at her most arch. Coming on to Terry and then - when Jill appears as she's arranged - pushing him away and hysterically crying attempted rape.

    Immediately, all the pieces are back where they're meant to be. Patricia is no longer sidelined, or being manipulated by Robin into uncertainty about her relationship with Margaret. Instead, she's more surefooted than we've seen her in what feels like some time.

    The stakes are high. Not just for Terry, but for all the characters who are forced to take sides based on who they believe. Jill - who is convinced she has witnessed her rapist striking again - or Fiona who knows in her soul that it's a Patricia scheme.

    Had Fiona simply believed Patricia, it would have been a great moment for Terry, who would have been royally screwed over by everyone. But Fiona siding with Terry makes things so much more juicy and complex. Any relationship that either Fiona or Terry have is to be tested. Relationships that have already been to hell and back previously (think Terry and Jill; Jill and Fiona; Fiona and Gordon...).

    Patricia evoking the ghost of evils past is forcing everyone to take a step back and acknowledge the elephant in the room. The things they haven't fully addressed. Fiona in particular is given some fantastic diatribes. There are rants about Patricia, of course, as in her words to Stephen:


    But crucially, the recently cosy relationship between Fiona and Terry is put under the microscope in dialogue that will satisfy anyone who has been struggling to get their head round Terry's "rapist to hero" status. Fiona to Terry:


    In a touch that calls back to those early episodes, Fiona and Patricia are kept apart for the entire episode, even as their enmity becomes the driving force. Patricia lies in bed looking fabulous and pretending to be shaken and angry. Fiona seethes with anger that nobody can see through Patricia's scheme. We know a confrontation of epic proportions must await, and with each interaction each of the women has with others, the stakes get higher and higher.


    The final scenes are tense - almost Christie-esque - as all concerned with Woombai (minus Patricia) gather there to judge how they view things based on two very different stories (Jill and Patricia's version versus Terry and Fiona's). Gordon; Margaret; Stephen; Jill; Terry and Fiona all face off. Each with their own agenda and beliefs. The visuals are compellingly uncomfortable. Most of all, there's Jill - heavily pregnant with her rapist's child - standing across the room from him, spewing angry accusations. But on someone else's behalf.

    By episode's end, when Fiona feels she's been betrayed by the people she loved and trusted, there's a feeling that anything could happen next. And it probably will.
     
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  2. James from London

    James from London Soap Chat Mega Star

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    I wonder if any first-time viewers experienced the two storylines simultaneously? I've never heard of S&D airing in the US (God knows, they had enough of their own soaps to cope with) and we didn't get the Gary/Abby/Val era in the UK until about four years later (by which time S&D would have been almost over). I don't know if Knots continued to air in Australia after the BBC dropped it from prime-time over here, and then there's the rest of Europe ...
     
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  3. Mel O'Kalikimaka

    Mel O'Kalikimaka Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd also be interested to know these.



    Oh, my ITV region was hopeless with S&D. We didn't get it until the last half of '84*. It wrapped up in mid-'91, which I think was round about the time Peter Hollister was being buried on Knots. But yes - even then Val discovered Abby and Gary waaaay after Patricia and David at the waterhole.


    *Which worked out better for me. Even then I didn't discover it until towards the middle of its complete run.
     
  4. Victoriafan3

    Victoriafan3 Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    97138D2A-2B93-4E22-AE2B-4C262C10AC45.jpeg
    This was from Star Enquirer in 1984, when Pete and Ally were on the cover. This would’ve been an amazing story! Imagine that. Presumably they were contemplating this?
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
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  5. Wintry North Poleson

    Wintry North Poleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    I think John can only truly be happy with Angela. There's always something "in the air" whenever they're in the same room.
    He wanted to believe that he was in love with Jill, but he had to destroy that relationship.
     
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  6. Wintry North Poleson

    Wintry North Poleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    Charlie's Theme

     
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  7. Blizzard Channing

    Blizzard Channing Soap Chat Star

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    Actually, I know it's very early to be talking about it now, but I wondered if sometime in the far future when most of us have already made our way through S&D, if there's be any interest in starting a similar thread for Prisoner. Seeing as all the episodes are on YT, and it's freaking awesome. Although it's 692 episodes that are twice as long as a S&D episode so it's quite an undertaking. But I reckon I'd be up for it. I've seen a good chunk of the middle years which I'd love to revisit and would also like to see the rest.
     
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  8. Mel O'Kalikimaka

    Mel O'Kalikimaka Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd love to see all of Prisoner at some point. Like you, I've only seen a small section of episodes - probably around a season or so - but I did enjoy them.

    After S&D I'll definitely need a bit of a break first, but I hope by the time most of us are wrapping it up I'll be ready to dive in.
     
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  9. Mel O'Kalikimaka

    Mel O'Kalikimaka Super Moderator Staff Member

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    #390

    The O’Briens are now on the scene. And there’s some promise there. They’re essentially the 1984 version of the 1982 Palmers. Much needed now with Beryl and David empty nesters going through yet another affair cycle. There’s a hint of a juicy backstory with Mike having had a fling with his secretary and the family being somewhat fragile as a result of it. Mike and Heather have renewed their wedding vows, Mike’s beginning a new gardening business. This is their fresh new start. Being aware of the bigger picture, these first episodes have a poignance to them.

    Importantly, for characters that are intended to be a central part of the series, there are connections with existing characters. As well as being new next door neighbours to the Palmers, Heather knows David and Margaret from school days. It’s a bit of a leveller, and means there will be plenty of good reasons for the new family to spend time with characters from both extended families.

    The writers have wasted no time in throwing the O’Briens into the imbroglios of their neighbours, with Jeff - and in turn the entire family - learning of David’s dalliances with Margaret. Cue some socially awkward moments.

    David really is a slime. He’s been manufacturing arguments and freezes with Beryl, as he is wont to do when there is the slightest hint of fanny on the horizon. All the better to rationalise his infidelity as justified. It’s frustrating to watch, because he never seems to learn or grow. To build on James’s Knots parallels, this is akin to watching Gary Ewing of Season Two and three on a loop.

    Margaret and David’s affair has been blown out into the open. Not by Jeff or any of the O’Briens, but by Margaret herself telling all to Beryl with a little sisterly encouragement from Patricia. I’m still not clear on Patricia’s motive. At this moment it almost seems like she’s trying to be helpful, but I’m still feeling she’s getting Margaret to do the dirty work to leave David free for her to go after.

    And there’s more reason for her to do so, since she and Stephen have separated with the truth about her lie having found its way into the light. There have been some cracking scenes at Woombai, with some fun and games, bluffs and double bluffs, and it’s been very fast moving. But Stephen has seen her for who she is and in the cold light of day decided he’s better off without her. I’m particularly enjoying the bonding between Gordon and Stephen over their newly shared status as former husband/mortal enemy of Patricia.

    Jill has gone into dramatic outdoor soap labour, with only Robin for company. And I’ve realised who I'm reminded of when I see Robin...
    [​IMG]
    It's the mouth and teeth. And the acting range.
     
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  10. JingeBellsROG

    JingeBellsROG Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    Up to episode 58.

    Angela has really matured, hasn't she? Turns out, she can be calm, logical, and sensitive, while occasionally thinking of others too. I suppose that can happen when confronted with a dying child.

    I really loved the wolf-whistle incident. How terribly progressive of a show from 1982 to present it as the sexist annoyance that it is. And it works because everyone else, including women, react to it in the way you'd expect: Wondering what the big deal is.

    David somehow looked hotter as Patricia was increasingly tempted to start the affair. Gone were the plain t-shirts, in with the well-fitted shirts unbuttoned down to the navel. It all moves at such a breathtaking pace: No sooner has the affair started that Beryl suspects and finds out. But I think this keeps the characters in mind: It would be a huge disservice to Beryl to have her find out Patricia's at Woombai and not suspect. Beryl isn't a flashy character, so when she decides to fly down (up?) to Woombai, or when she silently breaks down in Fiona's place, it really matters.

    How fascinating to see arguably the show's villain/bitch motivated by... love. Selfish, self-serving love, perhaps, but nonetheless.

    On a shallower note, these Australian men sure are beefy, aren't they? The jeans could not be tighter. And, then of course, you have David swimming in his underwear and nearly exposing his behind as he came out of the river.
     
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  11. Mel O'Kalikimaka

    Mel O'Kalikimaka Super Moderator Staff Member

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    #395

    It feels like the series has had a soft reboot, or has entered an exciting new phase. The things we were concerned about in recent weeks have been resolved or have morphed into other concerns. The O'Briens have brought a kind of grounding to the series. Even less-than-exciting scenes of young Katie going all melty over the sight of John and Andy, or Jeff and Tony playing a computer game have a heart to them that conjures up images of early days at the Palmers'. Heather in particular is already a very welcome addition, and I especially enjoy the discomfort she's shown over knowing more about the neighbours' strife than she feels is appropriate at this stage in their relationship. There's been a wonderfully Knotsian scene in which Heather reluctantly visits newly abandoned Beryl - ostensibly to borrow some eggs, but actually because Tony has asked her to look in on Beryl while he is out. She finds Beryl in domestic turbodrive, apparently giving the kitchen a good clearout and talking nine to the dozen like a short circuited Stepford Wife. Heather simply stands there silently, smiling politely but looking increasingly uncomfortable. It's a terrific moment for both women.

    This welcome prosaic scenario of new neighbour etiquette makes the more plot driven stuff going on seem even more exciting while at the same time somehow validates it by setting it firmly in reality. Heather fretting over having to make small talk with their new neighbour has contrasted perfectly with a soapy tumble down a flight of stairs; a dramatic plane crash (offscreen, naturally) resulting in burns; and a Leanne Rees style photoshopped setup designed to bring down one of the most moral characters and ruin the lives of those around him.

    David and Margaret's affair has given some cracking scenes. I'm pleased to see characters taking sides as that's always good for tension, and it's been really good to have Doug and Rosie thrown into it: Rosie sensing trouble instantly and trying to keep out of it. Beryl shouting at Doug for interfering and revealing that Doug hadn't fixed Kevin and Lynn's relationship as he'd previously thought (this felt particularly cruel given what a sweet action this had originally been. It was very satisfying to see this moment called back and "sullied" so that Beryl immediately knew she'd spoken out of turn). A scene in which Doug visited an unapologetic David and said he was ashamed to call him son is perhaps my favourite moment for Doug in the entire series, and a little reminder to long term viewers of the combative nature of this relationship in the early days, and the progress that David's actions have rapidly undone.

    Even by the standards of recent episodes, things have suddenly become incredibly fast moving. This is real miss-an-episode-and-you-won't-have-any-idea-what's-going-on stuff. It's very exciting.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
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  12. Victoriafan3

    Victoriafan3 Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    The O’Briens were very grounding, they were the last really watchable family to be brought in. Heather was played by a good actress and I did enjoy them. I don’t remember disliking David as much the first time I watched this 30 years ago but now I’m thinking he and Patricia really are a perfect match. Thanks for your reviews :)
     
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  13. Mel O'Kalikimaka

    Mel O'Kalikimaka Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm really enjoying all four of them. Jeff doesn't seem too popular judging from the YouTube comments (not that they're necessarily reflective), but I really appreciate the slightly awkward teen thing he has going on. Some of his clothes are a bit iffy, but that all fits in with the overall image.


    As far as I can remember, the first time round I viewed David as a more heroic, more noble character than he's reading to me this time round. He's an appalling husband, and I have to hand it to Tom Richards for allowing him to be so flawed, ugly and unsympathetic at times.


    By the way, it's great to see another S&D avatar here! It seems the series is trending on SoapChat, so maybe S&D will do well in the World Cup game that's about to begin. ;)
     
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  14. Victoriafan3

    Victoriafan3 Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    Yes all four of them are good, absolutely they are, but I remember vividly some of the Heather scenes to come down the track and she is outstanding. Such rawness/realness to some of her scenes later on.

    Prisoner on Oz tv was really good from when it started up to about 1984. Once the core cast started leaving and new prisoners were brought in, it started to drop in the ratings 1985-86. It also became much more violent and viewers switched off

    I like early on when Jilly #2 and a beardless Dan from RTE were on Prisoner together

    Golly the World Cup. S&D will be getting my vote unless it’s opposite RTE which would be very mean :-(

    Have any of you seen the Lighthorsemen? Peter Phelps was in it in 1987. He’s riding a horse. With nothing on ;-)
     
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  15. Mel O'Kalikimaka

    Mel O'Kalikimaka Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't remember Heather's specific scenes too well, but I do recall her character got put through the wringer with one thing and another. I'm looking forward to watching her story play out.


    Fingers crossed it's not the case. I'm hoping it's not up against Dallas as that's rarely good news with these things.



    That's a new one to me. I just looked it up and it looks pretty good. I'll try to get a copy on DVD some time.



    Well, I did quickly and unsuccessfully try to see if there were any pictures of this. Purely for research purposes, you understand.
     
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  16. Wintry North Poleson

    Wintry North Poleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    Lisa Cook is an interesting character, she's so un-soapy that it almost looks like she's a real person playing herself.
    That may not sound very complimentary but I really like her, maybe because it serves as a counterbalance to the more notorious drama queens e.g. John and Fiona.
    Fiona has decided that she wants to be Terry's mother but I think there's something creepy about the way she's hovering over him.
    Initially I thought the storyline played out very well, she didn't forgive him just because he turned out to be Scott, and Terry's accident was acceptable as the catalyst in this story.
    But now she's attached herself to him like a leech without giving him time to process the information - and his adoptive parents seem to have vanished into thin air.
    To be fair, Terry accepted it because he thinks Fiona can help him in becoming as successful as Lisa (although I have no idea what kind of success that is supposed to be).
    Apparently, that little intrigue has already been dropped because now he's upset about Fiona's past (courtesy of Patricia).

    It's funny that various characters are being accused of eavesdropping when the secret conversations always sound louder on the other side of the closed doors, so they'd have to make an effort not to overhear those things they aren't supposed to hear.

    I suspect the Parker family drama to end violently...the Woombai shooting cliffhanger, perhaps?
    upload_2019-8-21_2-32-41.png
    He's a bad daddy, isn't he?

    Dee's using some kind of hi-tech communication device.
    upload_2019-8-21_2-36-35.png

    The fantasy aspect of soap can be a little confronting sometimes.
    Dee tells Wayne that she knows for sure that Amanda won't change her mind about the wedding, therefore I expected her to come up with a smart and waterproof plan.
    But it turns out to be one of those wishful-thinking plots: all that's required is for Wayne to take her out on a date and play the perfect husband-to-be, and then she'll fall in love with him - in other words, a waterproof miracle.
    It's ridiculous when it works, and when it doesn't work it only emphasizes how ridiculous the "perfect" plan was.
    From a more intelligent point of view it's a no-win situation.

    Either way, the Morell residence has become a real nest of vipers, it's glorious old-school soap opera.

    It's amazing how unlikeable Kevin Palmer has become, although I don't entirely disagree with him regarding the Parkers.
    He also never spends time with Davey anymore, I'm afraid his marriage is beyond saving.
     
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  17. Mel O'Kalikimaka

    Mel O'Kalikimaka Super Moderator Staff Member

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    We're on the same page with this. Here's what I had to say just before the episodes you're currently watching:


    Yes. Any valid point Kevin had about the Parkers is undermined by the fact that he's expressing it like a sulky toddler.

    On reflection it's probably no different to how he was acting towards Patricia back when she and David were planning to play house. It helped back then that having a go at Patricia seemed necessary and almost heroic. But there's something about the direction Kevin took round about the time the Parkers came along that makes it very difficult to like him.
     
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  18. Mel O'Kalikimaka

    Mel O'Kalikimaka Super Moderator Staff Member

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    #400

    Funny the things that linger in the memory: Patricia’s “I’m not like her” breakdown at the end of #399/beginning of #400 was used as the S&D clip in the middle of a(n Aussie?) soap featurette on something like This Morning or Open Air back in the mid to late Eighties, with someone speaking over it about Pat the Rat.

    Doug and Rosie have departed. As both characters have been recurring throughout the series it all feels perfectly normal for them to say their goodbyes and leave. But knowing that one of them won’t be back at all and the other will only make a fleeting return I feel I wanted more.

    Another departure in young Tony Parker. I’m going to miss his young cheeky chappiness. Although perhaps he too won’t be gone forever.

    There’s been all kinds of weirdness with Wayne and Amanda in recent episodes. Several episodes have had no dialogue from them at all, but lots of sunny ethereal location montages of them looking happy and loved up. It’s almost like they’re trapped in their own spinoff, and are waiting for the scenes to have ADR added. I do kind of like it, though. The arguing, scheming and smirking was getting tired, and these montages are oddly refreshing.

    Speaking of refreshing, Jill has shown a fiery side recently that’s very welcome. She’s becoming very outspoken again, and it’s a side to her character that I enjoy. More than most characters on the show, Jill feels very truthful and unbiased in her battles, which is why she’s been able to come into conflict with both Patricia and Fiona in recent episodes, despite them being on different “teams”. She has far more objectivity than, say, Fiona. Therefore, when she speaks out against someone or something, it holds more weight with the viewer. She may not necessarily be right all the time, but she’s at least open minded and willing to change her views based on empirical evidence rather than a one-dimensional outlook. This is evident in her expression of sympathy for Patricia on hearing of her breakdown, despite Patricia slapping her pregnant face very recently. While Fiona clearly states that she feels no sympathy at all for Patricia.

    Andy is becoming involved with a Synanon-style culty thing. Only passing references so far, but I fear there may be trying screen-times ahead. Deep breaths. Oh, and he's also confessed his and Lynn's emotional affair to John of all people. Why, you ask? No particular reason, it seems. I think he was just stuck for conversation.

    Katie has a Big Secret. Mysterious phone calls and sightings of her with an older man abound.

    Above this, though, it appears that her character is something of an early attempt to challenge gender stereotypes. Clunkily so at times. The dialogue between she and Mike about Katie’s desire to join in with his gardening business, despite being a girl is far from subtle. Nonetheless, there is something that feels vaguely pioneering about her can do outlook given the culture of the series. What with this and Beryl’s business bonnet emancipation, recent episodes feel a little like S&D’s very own dream season.

    It strikes me that Katie’s journey into the world of men - rapid as it’s been - is perhaps forgotten in the annals of young Aussie soap women following similar paths. Certainly she preceded Neighbours’ Lennie Mitchell by a couple of years. And it’s ironic that a later young S&D woman who made a show of being able to wear overalls and fix cars actually felt more like an obvious attempt to cash in the Kylie fad than an evolution of their own Katie O’Brien.
     
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  19. Blizzard Channing

    Blizzard Channing Soap Chat Star

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    I'm quite enjoying both Martin and Peter Healy. Martin seems like a complex character, there's something sinister about him, yet so far he hasn't done anything very underhanded, but there's the definite feeling that he could at any moment. I like that he's very forthright and commanding with Patricia, it has the makings of a fascinating and tempestuous pairing.

    Peter is so much fun. He's cocky and cheeky, kind of a naughtier, friskier version of Kevin. So it's quite fun that they've taken off on a road trip together to get back little Davy. In Peter's first scenes, in which he was usually practically naked, I found it fascinating the way he immediately seemed to have the hots for Patricia, and wondered if there wasn't a Peter Richards/Sue Ellen scenario on the cards (and who knows there still could be!), but then the way he was also cracking on to Jill it seems like he's just a super horny 18 year old and will chase anything in a skirt. Anyway, I enjoy his scenes and I'm looking forward to seeing what mischief he gets up to. And then there's talk of Adam. I do like how the show gives you characters to look forward to. They built up Paul pretty well making me really keen to meet him too.

    Speaking of Paul, for someone who is quite sweet and whose heart is in the right place, he sure does seem to leave a trail of destruction in his wake. And something I might have read in someone's post leads me to believe that hurricane Paul is now heading towards Rob and Angela's marriage. I like Paul but found his sanctimonious attitude after finding out about where the money for Ramburg came from all a bit much. Especially as he's busy home wrecking and having one night stands with teenage girls.

    It's good to see Patricia back on form, and who knows how she will wield her new power of being the major shareholder at Ramburg. And why do I get the feeling that Wayne will not be in a hurry to give her back the shares he bought on her behalf...
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
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  20. Wintry North Poleson

    Wintry North Poleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    And when Adam's talking...you'll see what I mean.

    I see that the bar at Dural is still open - for all and sundry, or so it seems - so I may as well add a few comments.

    346

    It's very nice that they haven't forgotten about Matt Kennedy yet, he's such a dreamboat and his voice is way too sexy for a psychiatrist, eventhough it has a bit of vocal fry in it.
    upload_2019-8-22_0-54-29.png

    Fiona spots Patricia and Matt horse riding, and for a moment I thought they were going to reenact the shooting of NuDynasty (that killed Mark Jennings in the process).
    Stephen is enchanted by mother and son Parker, and in literally two minutes they create the image of a new family.
    Nothing could be further from the truth however, because his illegitimate son Andy makes his first appearance. And he's going to stay forever!
    Oh dear, oh dear, I wonder how I'm going to feel about him this time. But he does look like Dee Morell's grandson. And if Patricia sees the potential of this new twist, then who am I to disagree?

    Amanda confesses her part in Kevin and Lynn's break-up so that's the end of that paricular storyline.
    Like several soap-minxes before and after her, Amanda gets the "good girl" make-over and surprisingly enough it doesn't bother me at all. She still got the same hair.
    Of course it would have been fun to see her and Wayne as a long-term miserable couple but the story is moving too fast for such a focused story arc, hence the constant up & down writing for Wayne.
    Then again, everything can change in the next episode!

    Gosh, I do wish they'd show more of Allan Pascoe instead of talking about him. He struck me as a capable character in season 1, so why not bring him back?

    Fiona, still furious with Terry, decides to tell John and Barbara about the rape. But with Jill being out of the picture (is she coming back at all?) it all feels a little too much like old news.
    Fiona's performance fluctuates between hammy and great, emotional rawness.
    Incidentally, I miss the Fiona living in her apartment, and all the surprise visitors. There was more room for humour and pleasant chatter. And champagne, of course.

    Terry likes to manspread, and this looks like a scene from a cheesy 80s porn movie.
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    But make no mistake, it ends with an exciting cliff hanger!
     
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