Tyler Perry's The Haves and the Have Nots

Discussion in 'Sundry Prime Time Soaps' started by Jason73, May 27, 2017.

  1. Jason73

    Jason73 Admin

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    Gosh, this is a fun and addictive show. It reminds me of a daytime soap, back when the daytime soaps were good. The writers had to have been consciously channelling Another World's early Rachel Davis and All My Children's early Erica Kane when creating the character of Candace, played with gleeful venom by Tika Sumpter. She's a fabulous character, as is her rival, Catherine.

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    Candace happens to be sleeping with Catherine's husband. She's also pals with Catherine's boring, simpleton daughter and unbeknownst to Catherine--she's the daughter of Catherine's maid (and new best friend), Hana.




    The class warfare stuff is great and is how I imagine early One Life to Live might have been.
     
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  2. Jason73

    Jason73 Admin

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    Catherine is in one hospital with her best friend and maid, Hana, having a mastectomy, while her boring daughter is in another hospital, having been rushed there by her father's mistress after a suicide attempt.

    Meanwhile, Jeffery's kind of creepy crush on straight Wyatt, who he is counseling through his drug addiction, has escalated to the level of sniffing his discarded t-shirts. I don't blame him. Wyatt is sexy, but pretty dumb. Wyatt is handsome and dim-witted, but I like him.

    Hana has managed to procure Catherine's other best friend, Veronica, as a lawyer for her gorgeous son Benny. Benny is in jail because he got caught with several pounds of cocaine while he was driving his sister, Candace's, car. Unbeknownst to Veronica, the cocaine was planted in the car by her husband, David, in order to eliminate Candace from Catherine's husband, Jim's, life. Veronica is determined to get to the bottom of everything, which doesn't make David too happy.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
  3. Jason73

    Jason73 Admin

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    The show has done a good job (mostly thanks to the cancer storyline) in making me feel invested in Hana and Catherine's friendship. I'm dreading/excitedly anticipating the day that Catherine finds out Hana's daughter is the girl who has been sleeping with her husband.
     
  4. Jason73

    Jason73 Admin

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    What is wrong with Jeffery? He's just made a "friendship bracelet" for Wyatt and given it to him. Wisely, Wyatt has refused it and thrown it back at him--because he's not ten years old.
     
  5. Jason73

    Jason73 Admin

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    Honestly, I can't with this Jeffery stuff. Is he developmentally delayed? He's just stomped up the stairs in a jealous hissy fit after Wyatt's girlfriend stopped by for a visit. Now he's called his mom to tattle on Wyatt, shrieking into the phone "Mom, he's not following the rules!!"

    Wyatt is "gathering evidence" that might suggest Jeffery is in love with him. Given that Wyatt is no mental giant, this could take several seasons for him to piece together--in spite of Jeffery's t-shirt sniffing, friendship bracelet making, jealous hissy fit throwing antics.
     
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  6. Canon

    Canon Soap Chat Fan

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    It does look Awful/Brilliant. I may just have to give it a go.
     
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  7. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    And here I thought I was the only one watching this. Actually I sampled it in the first season or two but didn't really get hooked on it (warts and all) until later on, so hearing your comments on the early episodes is reminding me of stuff I had forgotten. I'll refrain from spoilers. :)

    You made a keen observation about the pacing being more like that of a daytime soap. That, I believe is one of the show's problems as time goes on (or, to be more precise, as time doesn't go on). The passage of time is an important way of keeping the plot moving on a nighttime show like this where a season is only ten or thirteen episodes. Instead, you end up with the dreaded "monthdays" syndrome, where one day of the characters' lives can stretch out over six or more episodes. It allows for a lot of character development, but becomes kind of disconcerting when you realize how much happens to these people on a "daily" basis. I can't recall if Monthdays was a problem from the beginning or if it developed later; a seasoned breakdown writer from daytime would help Tyler Perry immensely in this regard.

    In these early episodes, I recall the budget being much more constrained. Once the show became a hit (it's OWN's #1 rated show, and often wins its timeslot across all of cable), they poured a lot of money into production values, especially better lighting. So that's something else to look forward to. I mentioned on another thread here that HAHN does a lot of location work out and around Atlanta (subbing for Savannah), and the extra $$$ in the budget has allowed them to do some actual location work in Savannah, lending some authenticity to the setting. It's still 80-90% Atlanta, though.

    Story-wise they get more and more outrageous, though like I said, they can get bogged down when there isn't sufficient passage of time between events. Tyler Perry is no Doug Marland when it comes to writing a soap, but he does know how to populate a soap with the classic "types".

    My favorites have changed as the series progressed. Though "early Jeffrey" does border on caricature, I think TP did this intentionally to allow viewers to see Jeffrey "grow up" and come into his own, becoming more of a anti-hero. His metamorphosis is worth following. Kathryn Cryer vacillates between put-upon matriarch and nagging be-otch (with a few detours into tough-as-nails villainess), so she's always unpredictable and fun. Her rocky friendship with Hannah (the undisputed "moral center" of the show) is also well-done, because despite it all I think Kathryn, like Hannah is doing the best she can in an impossible situation. Crystal Fox (Hannah) gets to play it all, even if they make her do it in that awful wig for most of the early years. I followed Tika Sumpter when she played the good-girl Layla on OLTL, so seeing her play such an operator on this show is amazing! TP obviously wants to make her a star with this role, and she's running with it. Perry spotted Aaron O'Connell in a Liquid Plumb'r ad and hired him to play Wyatt--I can't say much without spoiling the future plots, so I'll simply say he certainly inherited his father's skills in self-destructive behavior. Keep an eye on Veronica, too--Angela Robinson can steal a scene with the best of them.

    The new episodes start airing in late June. I believe they call it "the second half of season four" rather than starting a new season every time they return from hiatus. Every return from hiatus seems to set new ratings records, so I'm guessing the show will be around for years to come.
     
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  8. Jason73

    Jason73 Admin

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    That pretty much describes it. I think you'd probably enjoy it.

    Because I am watching a couple of episodes a day, the pacing is working for me--but it definitely feels like a daytime soap, not a nighttime one. I can't imagine how this plays out when you're watching an episode a week.

    I'm actually enjoying the low budget nature of the first season. It's another factor lending the show its daytime soap ambiance.

    I really like the sound of that. I'm looking forward to seeing that play out. Jeffery has just done a bit of manipulating to cause a rift between Wyatt and his girlfriend.

    This storyline of Veronica representing Benny has finally given her something to do and she just got her first big scene confronting David, Jim and a police detective about Candace. I really like the actress.
     
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  9. Jason73

    Jason73 Admin

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    Hannah has told Kathryn that Candace is her daughter. It's gone down surprisingly well, but then Kathryn is the woman who is still employing Celine, the maid (also known as 4) who was another one of Jim's many mistresses.

    This show loves it's long, meandering two person conversations. It's kind of refreshing. I'm currently watching one long, continuous scene that started with Hannah checking on Kathryn after her mastectomy, transitioned to Hannah telling Kathryn that Candace is her daughter, moved on to Kathryn revealing that Celine had an affair with Jim, continued with Kathryn pining for her lost youth and raging against the wrongs Jim has done to her, and ending up with Kathryn telling Hannah that Jim and Candace are having an affair. The scene feels like it's ten minutes long, but you do get a good amount of insight into the characters.

    Jeffery's scheming has just blown up in his face and Wyatt has to make a choice who to believe--Jeffery or Laura, his ex. Given that Wyatt isn't winning any mental awards any time soon, I'm guessing Jeffery is going to be able to wiggle his way out of this.

    Veronica prevails! She's gotten the charges against Benny dropped, but her marriage is suffering because of it.

    I wish they would recast Amanda or kill her off. She's terrible.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
  10. Jason73

    Jason73 Admin

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    It turns out that Wyatt is smarter than Jeffery, though that's not saying much. He pretended to be gay to get Jeffery to admit he was gay. Then he told Jeffery he was going to tell his parents. Jeffery did the only sensible thing in that type of situation--he knocked Wyatt in the back with a golf club.

    Veronica gets the line of the episode: "Darling, you can't get ahead by giving it."
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
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  11. Jason73

    Jason73 Admin

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    I think I'm in season 2 now. The opening intro has changed and the hair and wardrobe have improved.

    Jeffery is out of the closet and his mother thinks he is selfish and a disappointment.

    Amanda is suing her parents for her inheritance and seems to be going crazy, which is making her even more annoying.

    Wyatt got high and mowed down Benny and a little girl in Jeffery's car, killing the little girl. His parents are attempting to help him cover up the crime. It's looking like maybe they are going to try and pin it on Jeffery.

    Candace and Jeffery seem to be developing an interesting friendship. I like it. It's making Jeffery infinitely more entertaining.

    You can tell they came into this season with a lot more confidence after the success of season one. Everything seems heightened.
     
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  12. Jason73

    Jason73 Admin

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    The location shooting is immediately evident in season 2. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Savannah and Atlanta, though.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
  13. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Other than the establishing shots (quick view of a house or a "hotel," for example) I don't think they actually filmed outdoor scenes in Savannah in seasons one or two. I know 99% of the world would not be able to tell a difference :innocent: . Once in a while they throw in something that makes me laugh. I'm not sure if you've seen it yet, but the gold-domed "Chatham County Courthouse" (the building they depict as Jim and David's workplace) is in fact Savannah's City Hall. The county courthouse is not photogenic at all, so I can see why they pulled the substitution. Still, at some point in season two they do some photo-shopping on the shots and turn it into "The [non-existent] Sarandon Hotel", which will be a hub of activity for the characters. I guess they decided to re-work the shots rather than just find a suitable, hotel-looking building and take shots of it. Lord knows Savannah has 1001 hotels to pick from.

    TP kind of ticked me off when he tried to frame this story at the time as his attempt at being 'topical' and doing an examination of how a family copes with a family member's descent into schizophrenia. The actress played it more as 'stoned' than schizophrenic, and her director apparently didn't get the memo about this (supposedly) being "informative" and very-special-episode type material. I still am not sure if the actress is just out of her depth, or if she got terrible direction, or perhaps mixed signals from TP about whether Amanda was supposed to be outrageous or pitiful.
     
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  14. Jason73

    Jason73 Admin

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    Veronica is now blackmailing Jeffery into being straight. She has possession of Jeffery's car, the one Wyatt was driving when he killed the little girl and put Benny in a coma. Veronica is threatening to pin the crime on Jeffery if he doesn't attend an important social function with a woman on his arm. This coming right after Candace dragged Jeffery to a gay bar and he met a cute guy named Landon.

    I like Veronica, but this story is really undermining her likability. I hope she comes to terms with her gay son soon.

    The guy playing Jeffery really reminds me of Chandler Massey--his vocal patterns and facial expressions.

    What I love the best about this show is the way they are able to create these stories that suck in a good portion of the characters--for example, this hit and run story, which basically affects all of the main characters in one way or another.

    Jim has launched his gubernatorial campaign officially. I can't see this ending well.

    This new character, Maggie, seems like a sharp cookie.

    A judge has ruled that Benny's father can go ahead and shut off Benny's life support system and let him die. I'm assuming that means Benny is going to wake up in the next episode.

    Yes, I've seen that one. Now every time I see it, I will think "WRONG!!" :D

    This isn't playing as topical or as a social issues story for me at all. The actress is too over the top and outlandish.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
  15. Jason73

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    In one of the most amazingly soapy series of scenes I've seen in ages, Candace crashes another campaign event for Jim. In a rage over her brother's supposed death, she pulls Jim, Kathryn, David, Veronica, and Jim's campaign manager Maggie into Jim's office. Tika Sumpter can deliver acid dripping lines better than just about anyone and the cattiness between Candace, Veronica ('Ronica as Candace likes to call her) and Kathryn is fantastic. Candace demands a million dollar condo and another million dollars, taunts David and Veronica over the way they are dealing with their son being gay, repeatedly insinuates that Jim will soon be having an affair with Maggie, and drops the bombshell that she is carrying Jim's baby. (I don't think she actually is.) The show has woven Candace so tightly into the lives of these characters that it's electric every time she's in the room with them.

    In a neat little twist, after Hanna loses her case to keep Benny on life support and believes that Benny's dad has pulled the plug, we learn that Kathryn had Benny moved to a different hospital and Benny's dad doesn't know where he is. What's so great about this twist is that, after believing her son was dead, Hanna now believes Kathryn saved his life. She's indebted to Kathryn, which adds a juicy layer to the hit and run story.

    In yet another twist, the new guy, Landon, that Jeffery has been flirting with, is working on Jeffery's parents' campaign.

    Jim learns that Veronica has the car used in the hit and run. Wyatt is arrested. Amanda stabs her rapist. While Kathryn is bailing Hanna out of jail, Kathryn learns Hanna told the police that Wyatt was responsible for the hit and run. Jim has Candace kidnapped.


    Given that all of the above happened in one episode, I'm guessing I've just watched the season 2 mid-season finale.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2017
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  16. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The back-and-forth between Hannah and Kathryn requires a scorecard at times. :popcorn: They will be there for one another, then some secret will come out that 'breaks them up,' only to have something else happen to bring them back together. Is there a female version of "bromance"?

    It's obvious Kathryn needs someone to be her conscience, or to talk her out of doing outrageous things when she gets out on a limb (sort of like companions on Doctor Who). If she had a husband who was worth a $%^&, he would fulfill that role...but he needs a 'minder' even more than she does! Crap happens to both of them on a regular basis, in case you have yet to notice this :rolleyes:, and I don't like it when Hannah and Kathryn are on the outs.
     
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  17. Jason73

    Jason73 Admin

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    Benny has had a miraculous recovery.

    Candace has been held captive for the past 5 episodes. She almost had to endure a forced abortion at the hands of her captors, but it turns out she was never pregnant.

    It looks like Jim has managed to get Wyatt off the hook for the hit and run.

    Amanda is still loony and is now in possession of a gun. She can't decide whether she's intending to use it on the professor who raped her or her parents and brother.

    In spite of her raging homophobia, Veronica has become my favorite character at the moment. She has her hands in a lot of different plots--bringing Candace's dangerous ex to town, continuing to force her son to date women, to name a few--but she does it all with stylish, fearless, bravura. I love her.

    The past ten episodes--all of season two--have all taken place in one week's time!

    The episode I just finished ends with Candace apparently being executed by her kidnappers!

    I really can't stand him. I'm not enjoying John Schneider's take on the role.

    Me either. They've hardly shared any screen time this season. I'm curious to see what's next for their relationship. Kathryn has been somewhat underused in season 2.
     
  18. Jason73

    Jason73 Admin

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    Candace has survived. But, worse than death, Jim has cleaned out her apartment and taken all her shoes!!
     
  19. Jason73

    Jason73 Admin

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    This episode cliffhanger was Veronica's worst nightmare. David is staying at the Sarandon Hotel because he and Veronica have been arguing. Veronica goes to the hotel to surprise him and finds Maggie in his hotel room. As she is about to storm off, Jeffery comes out of another hotel room--with Landon, having spent the night there. Who will Veronica rip into first--Maggie or Landon? I can't wait to find out!
     
  20. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The more I think about it, I think they had to create a fictionalized hotel (there is no Sarandon Hotel in Savannah) because of all the bed-hopping and various shenanigans going on. If they had used a real hotel (like the Desoto or Bohemian) the owner may have sued for giving the hotel a bad reputation!

    It gets worse (or better, depending on how you look at it). In your not-too-distant future, there's seven or eight episodes that cover about twenty-four hours. You almost expect Kiefer Sutherland to show up with a digital clock in the corner of the screen.
     
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