TNT Dallas - A Caricature Of The Original

Discussion in 'Dallas TNT' started by Kenny Coyote, Nov 14, 2018.

  1. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    Dallas did a much better job of providing a future next generation of characters, much better than the other prime time soaps. To not take advantage of it was idiotic.
     
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  2. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

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    How dare she portraying America's most beloved citizens like that.

    The Ramos family was a dysfunctional family, and that's what these soaps are all about.
    All that talk about JR the "family man" and "Ewings unite!" is a selective and distorted view of the Dallas saga.

    Well, we got Afton's daughter and Bobby's stepdaughter, two entertaining characters played by beautiful actresses.

    I'm not saying that the others shouldn't have been there, but I don't want them there just because it makes sense.
    Besides, without the Rylands there would be no Judith Ryland and that is UN-acceptable.
     
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  3. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    Well, you love missing the point, but I was making that statement to show that it was not a love of Mexicans that motivated Cidre.

    I did not talk about "J.R. as the family man" or "Ewings unite." I provide plenty of quotes to work with, thank you very much. :p

    But as for the difference between success and failure, aka Lorimar and TNT Dallas: The Ewings were a dysfunctional family that was entertaining to watch. The Ramos were genetically linked but not a family (Cidre spent little time establishing them like that in scenes) and they were deathly boring. There!
     
  4. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

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    I guess you didn't get my sarcastic tone, but never mind.

    I must applaud you for finding yet another angle to discredit CC, very creative indeed. I'm sure that if there had been any European characters she would have written them as loathsome Euro-trash, like all the other soaps did.
    Sorry, I should have posted that after Kenny's quote.
    Lies, nothing but lies!:p
     
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  5. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I think that the new characters started out fine. It's a new generation and Chris and John Ross needs to have love interests that are not related to them so hence they had to introduce new characters. Elena filled the bill for that as did Heather. But of course my favorite new generation pairing was John Ross and Pamela Rebecca. I am still annoyed how they ruined them in season three after trying to build them up as a love story in season two.

    Also I much would have prefered to have seen Cliff stay out of jail and for them to do more with Pamela Rebecca and her relationship with her parents. Cliff and Afton didn't even get a scene together and they should have had that. So another missed opportunity. :(

    Then as for the Ramos'. I think Elena, Drew and Carmen had potential and I liked the Drew & Emma romance that they hinted at in season two. The problem was it went nowhere and Drew was then quite pointlessly killed off in the Mexican drug conflict in season three. So I think his character was a bit wasted.

    Elena and Nicholas was boring too. It's funny but I love the actor on Fuller House. But on Dallas I couldn't stand his character. I guess that makes him a good actor! ;)
    However I did enjoy Chris and Heather's romance and if Elena and Chris has stayed together we wouldn't have gotten to see that.

    Thinking about Elena, I can't help but wondering who was the father of the baby she was waiting. John Ross? Chris? Nicholas?

    It's too bad that the new show was cancelled so prematurely before the next generation of Ewings could have been introduced.
     
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  7. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

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    But was it definitive? JR and Sue Ellen's marriage fell apart more than once.
    I disliked him too, but I enjoyed disliking him.
     
  8. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    That is true, but the difference here is the pacing. On the original Dallas we saw JR court Sue Ellen for about 20 episodes or so before they got remarried and he had lost his father so it was plausible to believe that he had changed and reevaluated his life. There was a lot of romantic build up and then they were married for half a season before it all fell apart when she found him in bed with Holly Harwood. The dramatic outfall was brilliant because of the build up.

    On Dallas TNT they kept building up to dramatic moments but we never got to see them properly deal with the fall out before the next plot twist came along.

    So IMHO John Ross and Pamela Rebecca would have needed more time to properly build them up as a power couple before tearing them down. The way it happened it was too soon. So again it was a problem with the pacing and maybe the show would have worked better if it had had more episodes/season or if they had shed some of the plot twists and stayed more focused on a couple of core plots.
     
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  9. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

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    I'm not sure if the modern audience has the patience for such extended storylines, especially when they can get instant satisfaction from other tv shows.
    Maybe as a storyline that runs in the background, like how they did it on The Good Wife.
     
  10. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

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    Imagine that.

    Elena was about to become a successful business woman, Carmen was a lovely housekeeper and Papi Ramos could have been a rich oilman if JR hadn't stolen his land.

    The drugs cartel was connected with a Mexican revolution, but I think you're right, they should have been played by Norwegians or New Zealanders. Yeah, definitely.
     
  11. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    The most successful new show of the last three seasons in the US is This Is US, which is the definition of slow-paced--they took a year and a half to answer the question of how its lead character died. It also, amazingly, has no drug cartels or brothels--just family members going through situations such as obesity, anxiety, loss of a loved one, and career changes. It is very much a soap, just not one with villains and ridiculous misunderstandings. The modern audience excuse (and I am not saying you came up with it, it is thrown around a lot and not just by posters) is a fabrication, much like the fabrication of the modern voter, by lazy show-runners and network execs who refuse to do hard work for success, and want instant monetary gratification--and they project their instant gratification desires onto others--aka, the audience. Good TV is for marathon runners, not sprinters. Many shows burned brightly upon premiere to be cancelled soon thereafter.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
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  12. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    I think a great opening scene to TNT Dallas would have been a close shot of Sue Ellen walking the grounds of Southfork with this speech added...


    ...and as Miss Ellie's final words are played out the camera drawers back to reveal Southfork. The scene was set, let the games begin.
     
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  13. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    The problem Willie is, we'll never know. Those characters we speak of; Lucas, Margaret and Cally's child were never mentioned despite Ray's guest appearances and Cally actually appearing at JR's Memorial. In fact for long time fans of original Dallas it was both comical and sad. TNT Dallas never needed to be an onslaught of plot after plot. When Ray first visited TNT Dallas would it have killed the writers to create a lengthy scene of Ray and Bobby riding their horses on the ranch talking about Jock, Miss Ellie. Or how about Bobby making inquires about Jenna, Charlie and Lucas. If anything TNT Dallas was screaming out for some connection to Lorimar Dallas. It also adds depth to a series which began in 1978.

    But I suspect we'll disagree on this, like we have before, but that's okay :)
     
  14. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    ...yet oddly year after year audience numbers for Commercial Stations are falling. There are so many options available to viewers; for example streaming services...and thank GOD for them. I'm rarely watching any stuff on commercial television (only the NEWS) so I wonder how the Executives continue to demand their high salaries and expect businesses to hand over an enormous amount of money for commercial placements.

    If Dallas was to begin today it probably would have been cancelled after the first 5 episodes. There is something to be said for a slow burn series. Show some confidence in the product you're presenting. Understand the audience you are about to present a series to. If it's primarily designed for teenagers then I expect the series to be a little faster paced. For mature adults I would expect a slower pace...but that's just me.
     
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  15. Frank Underwood

    Frank Underwood Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    Continuations come with checklists because they're literally the continuing story of an already established show. So if new characters become the focus rather than the periphery, and if the continuity mistakes become prominent, that's going to upset many die hard fans. Don't want a checklist? Create a new show from scratch with no pre-conceived notions.

    Another thing I find extremely annoying are fans who insist that continuations shouldn't "live in the past," and that focusing more on new characters and disregarding continuity is somehow acceptable. Love them or hate them, the recent continuations of sitcoms such as Fuller House, Murphy Brown, Girl Meets World, and Roseanne/The Conners not only utilize their original characters and their past, they embrace them. After all, what's the point of doing a continuation of a show only to have it lose its identity in the process?

    It's not a question of being entertaining, it's about who is more relevant. Considering the ending to season 3, the Ramos's and the Ryland's were more relevant than Christopher Ewing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
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  16. Frank Underwood

    Frank Underwood Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    Same here. Defenders of TNT's Dallas often use the excuse that the new show didn't have the "luxury" of a slow burn, taking time to develop characters, or even to show characters having meaningful conversations. Yet Better Call Saul has four seasons each consisting of only ten episodes, and has chosen the slow burn route. As such, it is detail oriented, character driven, and allows its storylines to unfold organically rather than rushing them. Cidre, however, seemed more interested in instant gratification with her so-called "delicious" scenes.
     
  17. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    It depends on which demo we are talking. Older audiences 25-49 definitely have the patience for slower paced dramas. It's what we grew up with after all.

    But if we are talking a 13-18 demo I doubt they have the patience. I once worked with a bunch of middle school kids and they didn't even have the patience to watch a simple opening credits since they are not used to it.
     
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  18. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    I was only 12 when I started watching Dallas. It was the beginning season 4 - just before we found out Kristen shot JR. I never found the pacing slow. I never once thought Dallas was a slow paced story. Not even close. It's not the age of the viewer - it's the mindset of the viewer that matters and Dallas clearly appealed to a massive number of viewers in a wide demographic range. It was a show families could watch together and it appealed to all them.

    I think the pace of Dallas was what it needed to be. It gave stories and anticipation time to build so that when the payoff to a certain storyline came, it meant something!
     
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