Spelling's flat-lighting ... how much did it hurt??

Discussion in 'Dynasty' started by Snarky's Ghost, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    Jason left Sable because
    either 1. Sable railed so much against Jeff and against Connie's stock transfer decision
    and/or 2. Sable tried to gaslight Connie
    and/or 3. Jason wanted Frankie all these years ago, and Sable was his consolation prize
    and/or 4. He wanted someone equally boring by his side
    but looks weren't really a reason. I mean, the man looked like he was due to be embalmed (hey, good solution to his fake terminal illness).
     
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  2. Ked

    Ked Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    Yes, I can see why Jason would want to get away from Sable. But I just can't buy why he would want to get with Frankie - especially after being with a gorgeous firecracker like Sable. Consider his early scenes with Sable, where he can barely keep his hands off her. How can he go from wanting her to wanting Frankie? Its more than a matter of just looks, too: Frankie just didn't have much in the way of charm or personality. In 'Secrets', however, I love watching Katharine Ross. Her character is very much "Frankie done right."
     
  3. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Champion

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    But then the hairstyle here is very Alexis, as is the outfit and jewellery. That would also be wrong for the character I think. I don't think that the '80s styling helped Ross. They would never have done it back then but what would have suited her more is if they gave her a vaguely late '60s/70s look, but still very glamourous. Long flowing dark hair, alternating between straight and curled, bohemian looking. '70s style long maxi dresses, no '80s puffiness! Suits in block colours, no frills or ruffles. Turtlenecks, under suits and blazers. White, beige, tan, black, being her standard colours, and then often shocking you in red or purple. The occasional fur, full length over a maxi dress. Statement ethnic jewellery, unusual. Pucci looking Kaftan and head scarf by the pool. More effortless casual glam. Black trousers and turtle neck with camel coat or tweed suits when in London/Europe.

    Frankie just didn't have a look, you didn't recognise anything as a classic Frankie look. She was just a bit everything and anything. I wonder what Nolan Miller's notes for the character were? She didn't feel like a character like Alexis, or Krystle or Sable or Dominique. Those women you could look at and say exactly what they liked and what they didn't. Even Caress you could tell her look, she was an aspiring Alexis/Sable.
     
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  4. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    Maybe she wasn't supposed to be Sable's equal.
    Sometimes I wonder if we, especially gay men, can distinguish between attractive and glamorous beautiful. I'm not saying that Sable wasn't attractive, but the heterosexual man who's going to choose between these women isn't going to consider the best hair/make-up and styling.

    Of course I understand that they need to sell it us, the viewers, but sometimes we just have to go with the story, and it's clearly stated that he fell in love with Frankie (before he was involved with Sable) and somehow he had never stopped loving her. And even that doesn't mean he didn't love Sable at all.
    That feeling/decision was made by the character, not Nolan Miller.
    Like we have to believe that Krystle loved Blake (instead of jumping on sexy Mark Jennings) or that Fallon considered Cecil a better catch than his gorgeous nephew.

    I find it so ironic that everything that worked against Frankie (and even Katharine Ross herself) worked for the story. She brought out the best (or worst, but in this case it's the same) in Jason and Sable.
    The Colby patriarch who struggles with his weaknesses and guilt, and Sable who's at her most entertaining when she's seething with frustration while her sister continues her claim that "Nothing happened/I've done nothing wrong/I'm innocent".
    Frankie appeared as a weak character on-screen but she also was a weak character in the story. Weak enough for me to think that she didn't really care, and weak enough to believe that there was no intentional harm whatsoever.

    And that was the fun part, that's what made The Colbys so entertaining - and I'm not sure if that could have been accomplished if Frankie had been that fashion-statement glamour puss who smoothly sahsayed back into Jason's life, being equally bitchy to Sable and give us devious smile freeze frames.
    Oh it would have been fun, but more like run-of-the-mill fun: a story that could have happened in any story.
     
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  5. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Champion

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    But the clothes and a look make the character, to a degree. Would Alexis have been the same character if she didn't paint her face so wonderfully and wore beige suits and corduroy blazers and her hair always in a bun? Would Krystle have been the same if she dressed like Sammy Jo? Would Sable have been as fabulous if she only wore jeans?
    Ali McGraw is another case in point. She looks out of place in that world and the character just never finds it's groove. Kirby too, the styling is just dreadful for Kirby, she usually looks like she's in costume rather than dressing like a young twentysomething who's just returned from years away in Paris! Another character who never finds her niche.

    Unless that's the essence of Frankie. She's a bit this a bit that. Wishy-washy, vague, undecisive, bla….. In which case I hate her even more. Which I never thought possible. Thanks Willie.
     
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  6. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    I don't know. I think people have different standards of beauty, regardless of sexual orientation. I mean, even with men, I for instance could never see what gay men or straight women saw in Mel Gibson. And for this case, I did not consider either Sable or Frankie attractive, to be honest, not physically. But the character and the way Beecham portrayed Sable made her spell-binding. Sometimes it is the actor/role combo, as @Ked suggests with the movie he posted. Like, I hated Ali McGraw as Lady Ashley, but I was ok with her in Winds of War.

    But the biggest criticism against the Colbys by reviewers when it aired was that despite the budget, its story did feel very run of the mill. There were different ways to portray her and flesh her out other than the fashion-statement glamour puss you suggest as the only alternative. The above Frankie argument reminds me of the "happy fall" argument for the exile from paradise. As in, viewers were lucky Frankie was so undefined and underwritten.
     
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  7. Ked

    Ked Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    Let's see, 3 men (Jason, Roger and Philip) fall desperately in love with her; Sable is insanely jealous of her; pretty much everyone talks about how 'beautiful' or 'charming' she is... I'd say she was meant to be that, if not Sable's superior.

    Mark Jennings wasn't sexy, and Jeff wasn't gorgeous. I never saw that for either of them.

    But I don't want Frankie to be all 'glamed-up' and sashaying and bitchy and giving devious smiles. Not at all.

    No, I want her to be more like how Katharine Ross was in 'Secrets': beautiful and stylish - but in a subtle, soothing kind of way; melancholy (both characters were mourning a deceased husband at the start of their respective storylines); motherly yet out of touch with her child, and desperately trying to make some kind of connection; aging and yet still with a passionate, romantic side to her; and hiding a deep, dark secret.

    That was all what they tried to portray with Frankie, but it was much better executed on 'Secrets.' That's my whole point.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
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  8. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    Absolutely. Mark Jennings was just lousy. Early Jeff was f***able, but I also did not find him gorgeous. And he turned me off the more the show moved on. I think the Jeff/Fallon pairing was terrible when it became the show's super-couple sometime around season four, and a huge red flag of the way the show was twisting Fallon as a character. Cecil was not that alluring, but Fallon's preference had to do with her daddy issues.
     
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  9. Ked

    Ked Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    My brother-in-law, who's straight, has some very strange (and shallow) standards for the women he sees on TV. If any of them have some kind of flaw, even if its one, or if she happens to be one of those "pretty but plain" types, he denounces them as "ugly." For him to call a woman "beautiful" on TV, she has to be absolutely 'perfect', and sometimes even then, he'll still dismiss her if her voice displeases him. And even *then*, if her voice is fine, if she does something my brother-in-law doesn't like (like when Joan on "Mad Men" 'betrayed' Don Draper), he'll dismiss her again.

    Sometimes it doesn't matter what a person's orientation is; some people have very strange tastes. ^^
     
  10. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    I hope he doesn't read this thread, but there is another obvious reason for this straight man's fault-finding of women. :D
     
  11. Ked

    Ked Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    Oh, he's only like that about women he sees on TV. When it comes to his wife (aka my sister), he thinks she's beautiful. He's obviously in love with her, otherwise he wouldn't have put up with her for the past 13 years. :lol:
     
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  12. Richard Channing

    Richard Channing Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    Sorry, but no. I have to side with Willie on this, he is correct. Mark was indeed sexy, and Jeff was gorgeous. You two are clearly mistaken.
     
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  13. Ked

    Ked Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. ^^
     
  14. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    Like I said
    It's a matter of circumstances, rather than something I myself would have chosen for the part of Frankie.
    Sometimes you have these intentional or unintentional "misstep" with an unexpected positive result.

    But they didn't fall in love with her because she was more charming or posh glamour than Sable.
    If you think that Sable was more attractive then that's fine with me, but I take the story as told by the characters.
    As opposed to Blake and Cecil? Seriously?
     
  15. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Champion

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    Mark was good looking in a it's 1am and I'm drunk kinda way. You'd sleep with him, and then not really want to see him again when you realise how utterly devoid of personality he was. Jeff was pretty in the first season and yea, I'd do him then. Not so much any time after season 1. Then he was just an asshole.
     
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  16. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    And girth, too.:D
     
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  17. Ked

    Ked Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    ...Then why did they fall in love with her? My point was that its hard to believe why anyone would be attracted to Frankie at all. Yes, we're *told* why, but I'd like to be *shown* why. And what I was shown... didn't convince me.

    Who said I found Blake and Cecil more attractive than Mark and Jeff? I could by Krystle being in love with Blake, he had charisma and was 'distinguished.' And I could buy Fallon going for Cecil because she had daddy issues.
     
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  18. Ked

    Ked Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    :bah:
     
  19. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    I like that, but again it's not really about her, it's about what the character did for Jason and Sable. Sable's anger was so delicious because (justified or not) we could believe it.
    A lovelier version of Frankie would have undermined the result of Sable's reactions.
     
  20. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    But "being in love" and a "passionate love that happened all those years ago" is unbelievable?
    Then Blake and Alexis' backstory doesn't make sense either, he's a tyrant and she's a bitch - how could there have been any love between these people?
    The answer: IT'S THE STORY.
     

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