Netflix to screen documentary on Madeleine McCann disappearance

Discussion in 'Documentaries' started by Sarah, Mar 8, 2019.

  1. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-47481747

    A Netflix documentary about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann could "potentially hinder" the search for her, according to her parents.

    Madeleine was three when she was last seen while on holiday with her family in Praia da Luz, Portugal, in May 2007.

    Gerry and Kate McCann said in a statement the film could affect the police investigation.

    The documentary is due to air later this month. Netflix has been contacted for comment.

    Mr and Mrs McCann, from Rothley, Leicestershire, have pledged never to give up the search for their daughter, who vanished from the family's holiday apartment while they were dining at a restaurant nearby.

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing Soap Chat Warrior

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  3. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Fan

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    I live in The Algarve, though not at the time Maddy went missing, and although I knew a lot about the case - the dogs, the shutter, Kate's refusal to answer one single question etc I watched this series with firm thought of the McCanns were fully responsible.

    It has really changed my opinion though & it's very sad that Kate & Jerry didn't take part because I think it could have done them a great deal of good.

    I was always of the opinion that Maddy died in the apartment and she was probably hidden in or around the church as the went there constantly. There was also building work going on at the time and police were refused any kind of digging or X-Ray equipment (all of which isn't mentioned in the series - oddly).

    But having watched 7 of the 8 episodes I just don't see how that was possible - the media circus that was going on would have made it absolutely impossible to move Maddy - the McCanns' every move was followed.

    Obviously the series doesn't provide answers, but it does provide a lot of facts about the case that I wasn't aware of - and the horrific details they go into about pedophile rings is truly shocking.

    But there are still so many questions:

    There is still confusion though as to when Maddy was last seen - was it many hours before they discovered she was missing or just 1 or 2?

    Although none of the DNA was proved 100% to be Maddy's, did the car DNA match with the DNA found in the apartment?

    Why, when a multi millionaire is paying for the continued search are the police still allocating money towards it, but not other "missing" cases?

    Why did the McCann's pay off their mortgage with the fund people had paid into, to find Maddy?

    Why was Maddy's favourite toy - carried by Kate in every scene of the documentary get washed?

    Why did the McCanns refuse to answer every question put to them by the police?

    Why were neither of the twins taken, who slept through the whole apartment search by the McCanns, their friends and the police?

    I doubt we'll never know what really happened. The series is very informative and gives facts and timelines, but cannot answer the ultimate question.

    I always thought that the McCann's came across as very cold people, and that hasn't changed. I cannot relate to them at all. But were they responsible for all this? Unlikely but still not impossible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  4. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    Part of me believes they were involved, but then other part of me thinks no way because why would they go to all that trouble to keep her in the public eye? Had they killed her, would it not just be easier to pretend she was never there in the first place?

    The dogs get to me too. I believe the dogs know what they are doing and that, no, they aren't being 'led' by the trainers as many have suggested.

    I want so much to believe she is still alive, but that she is living happily blissfully unaware of her past. Worst case scenario would be that she is being held somewhere like Natasha Kampusch or Elisabeth Fritzl. It's so difficult to think also that she may be alive and if found, she will have no recollection of her past or her family.
     
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  5. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Fan

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    What keeps coming back - again and again - is that they are both Doctors and therefore if they had been responsible - for whatever reason - they would lose absolutely everything, including the twins, and both be in jail.

    That's quite an incentive.
     
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  6. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    Yes, I did consider this but was worried I was being too far fetched. Nice to have some back up! :clap:
     
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  7. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

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    There was a theory at the tine that they over medicated their daughter when they went out to party, then returned home to find her dead. And then, I guess, disposed of her body.

    Who knows. But I thought they seemed to feel genuinely guilty -- weirdly so -- at their press conference. And while any normal parent would feel guilty if their child was snatched, this just felt......…. different. It didn't feel like the normal guilt from negligence, nor the feigned grief of deliberate murderers, nor the tormented guilt of confused parents afraid their child may have been grabbed and possibly killed by a stranger.

    It looked like the grief and guilt of parents who concretely knew what happened to their child, and were sincerely very sorry for it, but were having to put on a show for the cameras.

    Says I.

    And if their lawyers, a dozen years later, are asserting that a new documentary would somehow subvert the ongoing investigation, that also doesn't bode well for the parents' total innocence.
     
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  8. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Fan

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    I've now watched all 8 episodes and I really don't know what to believe as there are so many issues with all sides.

    Portuguese Police investigating the crime rather than the disappearance.

    The McCanns not accepting they could ever be suspects and therefore not answering any questions that could have helped the police.

    The apartment & car - still so many questions remain unanswered that could have been completely thrown out or led to further investigation.

    The huge profile the case got in such a short time - what did the McCanns do/say/know to have it blow up so massively?

    The Press printing huge headlines of who they thought was guilty, taking attention away from what may have actually happened.

    The fund - over £11 million pounds - where did it go? Why did they pay off their mortgage with it?

    The books, the court cases, the libel cases and the general circus of it all, all overshadowing the fact that a gorgeous 3 year old, innocent, happy young child had vanished into thin air.

    I do wonder that if people had reacted quicker & answered questions whether we'd be any the wiser, but 11 years on and we are all left wondering what really happened.

    Maddy may yet turn up (hopefully alive), as the series concludes, many children re-appear after missing for many many years, so there is always hope.

    But still...after all that, after all the investigations, recriminations, court cases, fundraising, one thing STILL makes me questions the McCanns - the Cuddle cat!

    Cuddle cat was Maddy's favourite toy & Kate carried it with her everywhere. It smelt of Maddy, it was something she treasured. But when police wanted to test it, it was put in the washing machine....IT SMELT OF MADDIE and she washed it!? And that is the one thing that sticks in my mind even after 8 hours of watching this series - and oddly, one of the few things the series didn't even mention!
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  9. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Fan

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    Can I just add - after this & Leaving Neverland & Making a Murderer - I am kinda done with documentary series for a while, they kinda take over your whole thought process!
     
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  10. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing Soap Chat Warrior

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    I started watching this series and I find it really slow going. They are dragging out a story that the series Panorama did in a single one hour show into an 8 hour series and I understand there is no major new revelations.

    I don't know whether or not they had any involvement in Madeleine's death but surely they have committed the crime of child neglect. They left a 3 year old child on her own while they went out boozing. They couldn't even be bothered to check on their children themselves and left it to others in their group to do the job. When their child went missing, rather than wanting to be on hand if there was significant news or to greet Madeleine had she been found, they thought it was more important that both of them should go to the Vatican to meet the Pope.

    Whatever this couple are, they are not good parents.
     
  11. Justine

    Justine Soap Chat Active Member

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    Episodes 1-3 were well done and built a bit of tension but it's downhill from there. I'm on episode 6, so maybe the last two episodes will wrap it up better but on the whole I'd say I'm unimpressed. It's definitely not one of the best documentaries Netflix have produced.
     
  12. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing Soap Chat Warrior

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    I've now finished watching this and overall I thought the documentary was quite sympathetic to the parents and included a lot of material that indicated they were not involved in their daughter's disappearance. The last 3 episodes were the most interesting, focusing on the findings of the private investigators but everything else has been in broadcast or written about before. Other the disappearance of Madeleine, the biggest crime was dragging out the documentary over 8 episodes.
     
  13. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Fan

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    I think episodes 1,2 & 3 could have been reduced into just 2 episodes without losing too much - a brief into is all that was needed and then straight onto the night she vanished and the press invasion. Only the Portuguese reporter had an interesting story to tell, the freelancer really wasn't needed.
     
  14. Ome

    Ome Admin

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    I want to watch this, but the length put me off.
     
  15. Zable

    Zable Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    I didn’t rush to watch this documentary because there was nothing on my radar to say that TDoMM could tell me anything new. I was pleasantly surprised. It must have been a coup for Pulse Films to get Neil Berry to speak: his words are now out there, on record for the world to hear.

    It certainly was a stroke of genius putting The Tale of the Summer Straw Hat in the early part of the 1st episode, for a couple of reasons.

    If true, then the ocean sailing event that Neil Barry alluded to must have been the Mini-Sail activity the Mini Club (a sub-set of the Luz Ocean Club’s Kids Club for children aged 3-5) conducted on the morning of Thursday, May 3rd, 2007. ….That completely blows out of the water the huge conspiracy theory ( 'proving' in detailed videos on youtube) that Maddie had, in reality, vanished before that Thursday; and that the crèche records had been falsified and all the childcare workers/nannies who had anything to do with the McCann children from the manager down had lied to police (and media).

    Wonder what reason these particular conspiracy theorists are now going to have for why a child-turned-teenager and her father might wish to lie about who tried to rescue her summer straw hat.

    The Tale of the Summer Straw Hat finds an eerie echo in The Man Overboard Story That's One for The Grandchildren that some members of the Tapas 7 had for police; an event said in statements to have happened that Thursday afternoon. Wow! Imagine that: 2 members of the Tapas 9 family group separately had a Help!-I’m-in-the-Choppy-Ocean experience, and on the same day to boot!! How’s that for sheer coincidence? Curiously, there's been no mention of Maddie's foolhardy actions in police statements that I'm aware of. Nor, I understand, is it spoken of by Kate, in her 2011 book madeleine.

    When the Polícia Judiciária archived the Maddie case (not closed) in July 2008, the bulk of their investigative files was made available to the public in accordance with Portugal’s secrecy laws. By law, the PJ also had to withhold files/documents from the public that fulfilled certain criteria. ....Neil Berry is said to have given police at least 2 statements on different dates. His first one was given to the PJ on May 7th, 2007. Curiously, that one isn’t in the PJ files that were made public. What was made public via the PJ is his statement to British police on April 23rd, 2008. That British police interview was at the request of Portuguese authorities.

    So I think the title of TDoMM’s 1st episode The Beneath Truth is absolutely fitting: it draws on journalist Sandra Felgueiras’ words in that episode of her wanting to seek below the surface for the truth; which made the episode title a companion piece to Dr Gonçalo Amaral’s 2008 book on Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira, (either The Truth About A Lie or The Truth of the Lie).
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  16. Zable

    Zable Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    In what way, Pete?
    How so?
    I agree, the stakes were/are high for them: child negligence vs child abandonment.

    Recall, we heard from businessman Brian Kennedy, a McCann benefactor, in TDoMM. Btw, he’s not to be confused with the retired teacher Brian Kennedy who is Kate McCann’s maternal uncle. (As some twit has done on IMDb.)

    After I listened to businessman Brian, all I could think about was what he didn’t reveal. Recall also, there was mention of Gary Hogland being one of the men privately hired to investigate Maddie’s vanishing. He had his expenses paid by this Brian.

    It’s alleged, Gary wants to publish a book about the private investigation. One draft, posted online and allegedly written by him (Chapter 10), tells of a “blazing row” he'd had with businessman Brian, allegedly after Brian revealed to Gary information Gerry had shared with him (Brian). ....One piece of it is about something that I've seen bits of in the PJ files: evidence the PJ had that more grog had been bought than the Tapas 9 had let on, and Gerry’s credit card had been used to settle the bill. (IIRC, the same credit card Gerry had used to rent the car they got after they moved out of the Ocean Resort. A credit card he first told the PJ he didn't have, then, confronted, said he did bring to Portugal but had lost on a return trip to the UK because he was pick-pocketed. Miraculously, a kind Samaritan found his wallet in London and forwarded it to his home & his sister had arranged for him to get it back in Portugal.) ....The second piece is more serious: I won't say what but it involved some of the Tapas 9 but didn’t involve the McCanns; however, Gerry had feared Kate & he would be caught up in that matter by association if it came out.

    There definitely is a cover-up about something that Thursday. I've noted oddities that can be explained away (like vague or approximate times because folk weren't minding the time or not having watches & mobile phones with them while working or at dinner) and oddies that can't. Why some of the oddities even have to exist is not clear. They seem just so unnecessary. The Pact of Silence that David Payne spoke of may be a pact of silence about more than one thing, and the Tapas 9 may have tripped over themselves to help each other out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  17. Zable

    Zable Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was only Kate who didn't answer a set of questions, on legal advice from the McCanns lawyer, after she was made an arguida. Gerry got the same legal advice when he was made an arguido but he decided to ignore that advice, so he answered his set of questions. He disclosed that to a Portuguese English-language publication, I forget which one. Do you know of any police questions Gerry never answered?
     
  18. Zable

    Zable Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    Care to elaborate Pete? I'm mulling your use of the word "confusion". Who's confused? Folk at the resort or those like us not directly involved in the case? It seems to me the Tapas 9 largely lacked confusion in saying who was doing what when in their individual reports. Just that their statements don't all tally, on the time especially.
     
  19. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Fan

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    I've always been of the opinion that they had a hand in her disappearance, but with the scale of the media circus that surrounded them when on earth could they have taken the body elsewhere?

    I think if they'd taken part in the series they could have given it some heart - the biggest thing consistently thrown at them is their coldness and arrogance, which, I still get now when I see them.

    There is still some mystery over when Maddie was last seen by anyone outside the immediate family - and so there is still some confusion - was it the day before, earlier in the morning etc - this is important information because it could change the whole timeline and point to whether the McCann's could have been involved and had already moved her before they raised the alarm in the evening - by then they would know she wouldn't be found.

    With regards to the questioning, yes, I think you're right, I think Gerry did answer the questions, Kate refused (based on advice) in case her answers and timelines differed to what Gerry had said, providing the police with more doubt of their guilt/innocence.

    It's all so very sad and complicated.
     
  20. Zable

    Zable Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    Sarah, the investigative team under Dr Amaral did not believe the McCanns or anyone else had killed her. They believed that she died accidentally in the apartment. (That’s stated in Chief Inspector Tavares Almeida’s interim report he submitted to Dr Amaral.)

    Both Eddie and Keela had alerted behind the sofa.

    Based on the splatter pattern of the minute traces of blood found on a sofa, the flooring behind the sofa, the wall and curtains, it was theorized that the accident was a fall, possibly sustained in an attempt to gain access to the window in order to look out that side of the apartment (possibly because she’d heard her father’s voice outside).


    The police believed her parents were involved in having her body removed from the scene and concealed; “simulated” an abduction; and that their friends assisted in a cover-up. (Also stated in CI Almeida’s interim report.)

    After Maddie vanished, the McCanns were moved to another apartment. Later, they moved out of the Ocean Club and rented a villa elsewhere. They were not yet arguidos. When PJ police brought Eddie to the villa to search, almost the first thing he did was to go straight to Cuddle Cat. When he left the room, his handler, Martin Grimes, took Cuddle Cat and hid it in a cupboard. When Eddie came into that room, he went straight to the cupboard and alerted. He wasn’t alerting to blood. He was alerting to cadaverine. Cuddle Cat had either been in contact with a corpse or in very close proximity to it.

    Boxes of stuff from the villa were packed up and taken elsewhere, to a place that had been forensically cleaned to the very exacting standards of a top British murder specialist beforehand. There the boxes were unpacked and every item laid out. Eddie alerted to cadaverine on 2 pieces of Kate’s clothing and 1 piece of clothing belonging to one of the twins. …Kate/her friends claimed it was because Kate had been in contact with a number of corpses in the week before going on holiday. Even allowing for Kate bringing her work clothes on holiday, had she been taking Cuddle Cat to work with her?

    When Martin brought Eddie to work the cars, he had no idea whose cars they were. Out of the 10 cars Eddie only alerted to the McCann's rental.

    Keela was never sent in to work a place for human blood until and unless Eddie had alerted to cadaverine. She had been trained to alert only to human blood, dried human blood. Which she did, in the boot and on the car's ignition key. Martin took the key and hid it. She found it. How many humans bled in that car? Because it wasn't blood from thawing supermarket meat that she alerted to.

    I don’t believe Madeleine is alive. Sorry, Sarah.

    P.S Eddie was euthanized some years ago because of nose cancer. Poor doggie. Trained from puppyhood on toxic cadaverine so he could excel in doing the work he did: detecting and only alerting to human cadaverine on anything. To reduce Eddie and Keela to the level of sniffer dogs is to greatly downplay their deeply enhanced skills.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019

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