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Meghan and Harry

Discussion in 'Headline News' started by Sarah, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing World Cup of Soaps Moderator EXP: 20 Years

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    The undemocratic monarchy only exists because that's what public opinion currently indicated Britons want. However, support for the Royals is strong amongst older people but significantly less with younger people. This is why it's so important for the Royal Family to modernise and broaden it's appeal amongst younger people otherwise we will get to a point when public opinion is in favour of scrapping them. Kate offers nothing new to the family and is just a continuation of the status quo which may be ok for a nonagenarian monarch but offers nothing new or interesting to younger generations.

    Can anyone think of anything of worth that Kate has done? Going on an official trip to the Royal Ballet or presenting a trophy at Wimbledon Tennis doesn't count.
     
  2. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator EXP: 19 Years Staff Member

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    I think the way the Duchess of Cambridge conducts herself is the kind of un-controversial, positive but quiet behavior that the courtiers believed/hoped they would get from Diana when she married into the family. Diana had to tick off some pretty big boxes (as close to virginal as possible, privileged background with a strong British pedigree, etc.) but they unwisely believed that she would be some boring Stepford Wife with no personality of her own--in other words, never out-shine her husband. Thinking that people would be more interested in crusty ol' Chuck than in a beautiful young thing with a great smile and natural rapport with the public was a huge mistake they all paid for later on. Perhaps Kate looks at that whole situation as instructional and purposely works to keep her image from eclipsing that of her husband. I'm sure the courtiers are only too happy to help her with that task, since they know which side their bread is buttered on.
     
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  3. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle EXP: 19 Years

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    Remember when Charles was regarded as the relaxed royal?

    No? Many of you are too young.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Star EXP: 3 Years

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    Great hair.
     
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  5. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator EXP: 21 Years Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    The only thing I can think of is her with William and Harry being advocates for mental health. I was quite positive about her then, but it seems she was overshadowed when Meghan arrived.

    I'm old enough to remember Charles and Diana getting married, and old enough to remember how he treated Diana from the minute they went on honeymoon.
     
  6. Mel O'Drama

    Mel O'Drama Super Moderator EXP: 11 Years Staff Member

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  7. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator EXP: 21 Years Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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  8. Mel O'Drama

    Mel O'Drama Super Moderator EXP: 11 Years Staff Member

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    I also noticed that there was a huge collective groan from the audience as the woman made her accusation (the third time. She wasn't heard properly the first two times as she was talking over Fox and not allowing him to respond). That was the point she lost them.

    Laurence's response was absolutely spot on. Accusing somebody of white privilege in a bid to score points is itself racist. And people are tired of it.
     
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  9. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator EXP: 21 Years Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    The thing that gets me is that Meghan isn't black. She's mixed race. (I hope I have that right, apologies if not).

    I have to agree it is getting a little old.
     
  10. Mel O'Drama

    Mel O'Drama Super Moderator EXP: 11 Years Staff Member

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    In this case it came out of nowhere and had nothing at all with what was being discussed.

    Laurence had been asked if the Sussexes should profit from their name, and his answer was well considered and balanced and he'd also put forth reasons why he could see the couple's point of view. He also gave very valid reasons why they shouldn't have their cake and eat it, as looks likely to happen. At no point did he single out Meghan. If anything he was more critical of Harry for perhaps not emphasising to Meghan what she was getting into.

    A reasonable person who disagreed would rebut any points of Laurence's with which they disagreed. Instead, the woman came in to say Meghan was being bullied and said Fox wasn't qualified to comment because he was a white male.

    The full exchange is here, with the question at 2:10, then Laurence giving his views on the Sussexes, and "white privilege" woman interjecting at 3:40.



    Seeing it in context it's plain to see it's a reaction with no basis in fact at all, and out of touch with what has actually been said. She had no cause to cry racism simply because she didn't agree with the valid arguments being made.

    What she does here is to trivialise racism. Which is a very dangerous thing to do.

    Laurence Fox gets it completely right in his response at 4:55. He has a similarly eloquent and refreshing response at 7:40 when someone suggests (as is fashionable these days) that he is being sexist.
     
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  11. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator EXP: 21 Years Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    That woman is either going to feel very foolish today and not want to face anyone, or she won't realise what she has done which is even more worrying.
     
  12. Mel O'Drama

    Mel O'Drama Super Moderator EXP: 11 Years Staff Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator EXP: 21 Years Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    Dear God. She's really asking for it isn't she? This isn't going to end well.

    How can she say it's racism? Was it racism for Diana too?
     
  14. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing World Cup of Soaps Moderator EXP: 20 Years

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    White privileged males who have never experienced anti-black racism (or probably any racism for that matter) aren't best placed to say whether or not anti-black racism exists in the UK. The idea that Britain is a "tolerant" country regarding race, as Mr Fox suggests, is ridiculous from the prospective of many black people living in the UK.

    I experience racism on a regular basis, most recently last month when I was told I only support the Labour Party because I'm black and I wanta Corbyn to "give more handouts to immigrants". In the past year I have been racially abused on 2 occasions (I described what happened to me at the time on another thread) and had to intervened on a few occasions when I have seen other people being racially abused, once when a vile woman was swearing and screaming abuse at a elderly black woman who she accused of jumping the queue at a bus stop. I have also witnessed anti-Muslim racism and abuse directed at Eastern Europeans.

    Laurence Fox and people defending him may think Britain is racially tolerant based on their own experience but as the woman in the audience suggested, if you think only your own experience counts and that of black people is irrelevant then you are the very definition of white privilege.

    Oh, and she was correct in saying that much of Meghan Markle's treatment has been motivated by racism, as I explained in a previous post on this thread.
     
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  15. Snarky's Ghost

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    It's not getting old to the people dispensing this stuff 24/7. They love it, are totally energized about it, feel this kind of commentary is evergreen, and they will never stop.
    People have said it here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  16. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing World Cup of Soaps Moderator EXP: 20 Years

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    Sarah, many racist stereotypes have been directed at black women for generations such as they are pushy, ignorant, aggressive and loud but one of the most common is that they don't know their place or that they are uppity. Some white people are ok with black women being nurses, singing Motown songs or being a track athlete but when they see a black woman in a position of authority such as a judge, a company director or a royal princess then accuse them of not knowing their place. I firmly believe most of the criticism directed at Meghan is motivated by this view.

    What exactly has Meghan done wrong? Princess Diana had affairs. She collaborated with Andrew Morton to dish the dirt on her relationship Prince Charles and her in laws. There were reasons why Diana was criticised but what are the reasons why there so much hate directed at Meghan if it's not racism?
     
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  17. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle EXP: 19 Years

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    Precisely. But it's designed to get everyone to walk on eggshells perpetually, not to combat genuine racism.

    Which just emboldens genuine racism. But woke, PC fools don't know that and don't care.
     
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  18. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator EXP: 21 Years Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    @Angela Channing

    I'm just struggling to understand HOW it's racism with Meghan. I don't recall any references to her skin colour apart from the intial announcement of her background. My feeling/opinion is that it's all motivated by jealousy because A) she's so beautiful B) she's a seemingly very positive person C) she hooked a Prince and people are thinking 'why not me???' and she has this extraordinary ability to make change. That's what I thought it was all about.

    I am interested as to why it is being brought down to racism - sorry if I missed the other post with examples @Angela Channing

    That's why I mentioned Diana. Diana wasn't mixed race or black. They picked on her incessantly. She had similar qualities to Meghan.

    Rather than it be about her race, I think it's more motivated by the fact that a certain amount of people can't stand it when someone who doesn't just display the stiff upper lip comes along. A lot of people are terribly judgemental particularly surrounding the Royal Family. They want everyone to be the same as them - miserable - and when someone comes along who is a breath of fresh air they're determined by whatever means to stamp it out. It's the same as referring to Elizabeth as the Queen of England. She isn't. There are FOUR home nations and a Commonwealth and many people are very very quick to forget that. I think Meghan is being punished for being an 'outsider' to many - not home grown like Kate, and so many think she's just another Wallace, which I have yet to see any evidence of. Don't forget, Edward abdicated - he gave up the throne and everything else for the woman he loved. And nasty old Granny (Queen Mother) made sure he was punished for it until his dying day. That is not what Harry is doing - it's NOT the same thing. But they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

    But perhaps the Queen shouldn't have given permission for them to marry if it was all going to turn out like this. Again, makes you wonder what the point in having a Head of State is.

    I'm actually becoming of the opinion that they should all be interbred in the Royal Family or those who want to marry into it have to go through about 3 years formal training so they know what they're getting into.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  19. Mel O'Drama

    Mel O'Drama Super Moderator EXP: 11 Years Staff Member

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    But the question I have is: does being white and male automatically make one privileged? On what basis can Laurence Fox be accused of being such a creature simply for stating a balanced opinion.

    I don't deny racism exists in this country, and we are far from true equality. But someone who called me a "white privileged male" would be making a judgement. Grouping me in to a convenient, faceless, homogenous pit without any consideration for the reasons why I may not enjoy the privileges I'm perceived to. And this would be based on nothing more than my gender and race.
     
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  20. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing World Cup of Soaps Moderator EXP: 20 Years

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    Anti-black racism isn't just about calling us n*ggers, w*gs or c*ons or passing us over for jobs in favour of white people, it's also about attributing negative stereotypes to us based on our race rather than on fact.

    From Wikipedia Stereotypes of African Americans: Black women in the 21st century have been stereotyped as angry, independent, and materialistic. The "angry Black woman" may be the most common of these depictions. This stereotype is a reference to loud, aggressive, demanding, and uncivilized behaviour that is often paired to a lower-middle-class Black woman. This stereotype is the physical embodiment of some of the worst negative stereotypes of black women—that she is out of control, disagreeable, overly aggressive, physically threatening, loud (even when she speaks softly), and to be feared. In this view, she will not stay in her "place."

    Many of these stereotypes have been attributed to Meghan not based on fact, because we know very little about the truth of what really goes on in the Royal Family, but based on her being a black woman therefore it must apply to her.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
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