Mark Graison's Persistence In Going After Pam

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Kenny Coyote, May 28, 2019.

  1. Jimmy Todd

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    I may be in the minority because from what I've read many viewers weren't too fond of Mark, but he grew on me. I loved Patrick Duffy the character of Bobby, but I believe Dallas would have been in invigorated if after Bobby was killed he stayed dead, Mark became a regular and the show focused on Pam working at Ewing Oil. Bobby's spirit could have lived on in the manner that Jock's spirit did.
    Also, my taste doesn't naturally run to the mustache without a beard look, but I thought Mark wore it very well:)
     
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  2. Chris2

    Chris2 Soap Chat Active Member

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    I never cared for the Pornstache. Aside from trying to steal away our Pammy, he also wasn’t very good looking IMO.
     
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  3. Mustard

    Mustard Soap Chat Fan

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    Mark is a playboy. He's used to getting what he wants. Pam seemed to get into his heart fast, and it was very rare for a woman to have that affect on him. Pam liked Mark as a person, and didn't want to hurt his feelings. Mark felt the need to try to get with her, even though it seemed hopeless and he kept a good sense of humour about it. As time went on, Pam came to rely on Mark's dependibility, which was much better than Bobby's, let's be honest. Once Bobby and Pam were divorced, and Bobby was back with Jenna, Pam and Mark got together too. But Pam could never quite shake Bobby out of her system, and she wasn't going to marry Mark, until she heard about Mark having leukaemia.
     
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  4. Lastkidpicked

    Lastkidpicked Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    One thing that we seem to forget is that J.R. had something to do with Mark going after Pam.

    Remember J.R. telling Sue Ellen that marriage troubles would distract Bobby and give J.R. an edge during the contest for Ewing Oil?

    And then J.R. "accidentally" bumped into Mark at the restaurant, telling him that Pam was quite taken by him. J.R. also told Mark (incorrectly) that Pam and Bobby were having problems, leading Mark to believe he had a shot.

    One funny line from that scene:

    J.R.: We should get together and see what we have in common.
    Mark: J.R., the only thing we have in common is that we are eating at the same restaurant.
     
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  5. Toni

    Toni Soap Chat Star

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    :funny::kidding:
     
  6. Toni

    Toni Soap Chat Star

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    This thread is fascinating me more and more every day. How people who bash Mark and his "stalking" behavior can be a shipper and a fan of April (you know, the one who went to Dallas only to get money from his ex illegally, first slept with a married man who had given him a condo (JR), then flirted with two creepy elderly men (Wes and Jeremy), also for money, and eventually stalked (internationally) a man who had lost his wife after being seriously burnt in a car accident, bitched about him in public, and ended up causing him pity after going through some problems that she partly caused (like getting her nose into an ex-mob´s life which also caused the death of a detective), and who finally agreed to marry her (even though he did prefer another woman who looked like her gone ex-wife)? I won´t even mention the skunk with an annoying daughter in love with a horse...

    [​IMG]

    "Charlieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!"​

    So all this with April and Bobby is fine, but Mark chivalrously wooing Pam and being chaste for a whole year is an unforgivable sin. Are you all waiting at home for a Disney prince or you try to attract someone you really like? Or at least, what would you do (men) if you were such a soap character?

    upload_2019-6-1_1-4-34.jpeg

    Moustache or not, John Beck was hot.​
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
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  7. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    Pam and Bobby were having problems ever since Pam helped Miss Ellie try to break Jock's will and take away Bobby's chance to compete to win Ewing Oil. It was something Bobby felt strongly about doing and he asked Pam to not help Miss Ellie break the will and to instead stand by him, to be supportive but Pam refused. That was the beginning of their marriage problems and it was when Pam went to help Miss Ellie get a lawyer that she met Mark, who had the lawyer they wanted under retainer.
     
  8. Toni

    Toni Soap Chat Star

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    No conflict, no drama. They had problems in the Pilot thanks to JR (and Ray). And Jenna Fairchild´s episode was the first time to show real conflict between them.
     
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  9. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    What is a "shipper"?

    BTW, I'm not one of the people bashing Mark and calling him a stalker. I wrote "I like Mark and never would call him a stalker - not then or now. I was just interested to get other opinions too." Not that you said I was one of them, but I wasn't sure if you included me with them or not. I do like April though. I think she was great! I didn't particularly like her the way she was in her first season, but I like who she became. If anything it's the change in society that I'm bashing, the change to where persistence was once considered admirable, today I sometimes hear it called "stalking." To me, stalking refers to following someone or something with the intent to hurt or kill, like an animal stalking its prey.

    I understood why Mark went after Pam the way he did. Women who look like Pam don't remain single for long. Mark was smart enough to know that if he didn't beat the other potential suitors to the punch, that one of them would get Pam before him.

    Do you think the storyline of Pam divorcing Bobby, having a romance with Mark, and then eventually remarrying Bobby made Dallas better than if Pam had stayed loyal to and married to Bobby the whole time?
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
  10. Toni

    Toni Soap Chat Star

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    I never direct my comments to one poster because I respect all of them, but the way April is loved here is beyond my understanding. She didn't evolve as a charactet, Katzman made us take her and retconned her as many times as needed. Lamest character ever. I don't even blame Wilson.

    By shipper I meant worshipper, a couple's fan. Oh and rewatch the post-Pam. She did hurt Bobby as she hurt Nicholas, Sue Ellen (and then tried to be her friend!), and also the Lombardis! She was mean, on purpose or not.

    Oh and you know how I love ya Kenny dear, don't cha?

    Edit to add that YES, I did love B & P much more when they made apart. Actually I only loved them up til JR's shooting. Then they became a bore, until Jock's will.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
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  11. Toni

    Toni Soap Chat Star

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    It was never stated that Bobby and Mark were friends, only acquaintances. But it was not a matter of stealing or seducing, I honestly think that Mark fell in love with Pam almost at first sight. So all were adults and not teenagers. Bobby was like a boy toying with the company. Pam saw he was changing and didn't like it. She said it clearly: "If I had wanted to be with JR, I'd have married him!" You go girl!

    Also I'll never understand why April and Jenna could get away with everything and be considered saints. None if them or their actresses were nothing special. At all.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
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  12. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    Yeah, good luck trying to get JR to marry you, Pam.

    I think Sheree J. Wilson definitely had something special as an actress. It's a charm, and a playfulness to her that I find very appealing.

    I liked Jenna. She really got a bad deal when Bobby proposed to her and then changed his mind just a short time before they were going to be married. Bobby never should have proposed to her if he didn't want to marry her. You could tell something was wrong with Bobby when JR announced their upcoming wedding at The Oil Baron's Ball and Jenna looked so happy but Bobby didn't look happy about his own upcoming marriage. he said it was because he didn't want Pam to be embarrassed but that didn't make any sense. Pam left him! She even went to France on vacation with Mark while still married to Bobby. Where was her concern about not embarrassing Bobby? Then Pam accepted Mark's marriage proposal. How was Bobby supposed to react? By staying single for the rest of his life?
     
  13. Mustard

    Mustard Soap Chat Fan

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    I think Pam could have done it in the late 1970s, with an Anne Boleyn approach of refusing sex for a while and expressing a desire for his child, combined with the idea of the Barnes daughter becoming one of the Ewings. J.R. didn't trust the latter dynamic at all when Pam was married to Bobby, but had it been with J.R. himself, a different story. J.R.'s marriage to Sue Ellen was not a happy one by the late 1970s, and was still childless.

    And we already know in the show itself that J.R. fancied Pam on a physical level, i.e. the buoys scene.

    Pam and Miss Ellie were right about Jock's will during the Battle for Ewing Oil. It wreaked havoc on the family. Pam grew attached to Mark because he was friendly and dependable, while also being keen to be with her. Bobby was usually busy elsewhere, and blasting his wife for not giving him more support against J.R. If Pam didn't have that strong connection to Bobby, she'd have got him out of her system fast in favour of Mark instead of planning to turn down Mark's marriage proposal.
     
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  14. kenneth

    kenneth Soap Chat Member

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    Nothing wrong with a porn stache but it takes having a rugged and masculine face like Mark's to pull it off. On twinks like Peter or on minors it looks ridiculous.
     
  15. Barbara Fan

    Barbara Fan Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I loved John Beck on Dallas - I liked the character of Mark and loved his scenes with Victoria P

    As a Bobby fan (at the time) I was more than happy that Mark and Pam married and the downside of Pat D (and his failed film acting career) return meant than John B was out of Dallas. mark was a good guy, a support to Pam and to Cliff

    As older and wiser than a teenager at the time, Mark was far more considerate to Pam than Bobby and wanted to treat her to things, take her to exotic places and buy her nice things.

    And he didnt pressurise her, they waited til after the Night out at Billy Bobs before they slept together.

    April on the other hand was just a slutty gold digger who slept with anyone to better herself and climb up the ladder. She has loose and no morals!
    One of THEE most annoying actors on the show.
     
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  16. Kenny Coyote

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    What's your opinion of the way Mark went after Pam, knowing that she was married, and not even separated when he started going after her? Do you agree with it morally and ethically?

    Mark was calling Pam at Southfork, he was showing up with flowers and champagne at the aerobics studio Bobby bought for Pam, and completely disrespecting Bobby and his marriage.

    Do you think Bobby should have confronted him in a stronger manner than he did? If I'd been Bobby I'd have told Mark "Stop calling my wife, stop following her around and stop talking to her. If you don't, I will kick your ass every single time I see you."
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
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  17. kenneth

    kenneth Soap Chat Member

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    Though not a fan of Mark's pursuit if Pam, this one is on her.

    As for April, I liked her eventual face turn, however, the way she disgraced Jamie's memory to get at her 5 % was nothing short of spitting on her grave.
     
  18. Jimmy Todd

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    Going after Pam while she was married is completely unethical to me. Pam herself should have wondered what this says about his values. Will he respect their marriage vows once they've been married a few years? I was surprised Bobby didn't have more violent confrontations with Mark.
    However, as I previously posted, Mark grew on me. I could never take to most of the new characters who came later. It might be that Mark was introduced in my favorite season, so I always associate him with that high quality time.
     
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  19. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    [
    "Pam herself should have wondered about his values." - That is a great perspective, Jimmy.

    If Pam had asked herself the question you just brought up, there would most likely never have been a chance for Mark to grow on her. It would have been over right then.

    Even though after a period of time I started to think he was a good guy, I still find the way he went after Pam very unethical, and to the extent he's trying to ruin a marriage, immoral as well. It's one of the Ten Commandments that you shall not covet another man's wife.

    If I were Bobby, I'd have told Mark "Stop calling my wife, stop following her around and stop talking to her. If you don't, I will kick your ass every single time I see you."
     
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  20. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    JR was human, after all. Back when Dallas was at its peak, 1980, and I was in junior high school, I didn't know any guys in my school who didn't "fancy" Pam and her "buoys." Every guy in my school thought Victoria Principal was hot. The other actress who we all thought was hot was "The 10" Bo Derek. Anyone here remember liking her? There's even a reference to Bo Derek's "buoys" in the classic "Fast Times At Ridgemont High" which made Phoebe Cates, Jennifer Jason-Leigh and Sean Penn stars. Does anyone here remember watching that movie a bunch of times?

    You know, if they had cast a different actress to play Pam, even an Academy award winning actress, but the actress had been just average looking, Pam would never have reached nearly the level of fame and popularity she did. She was just the perfect combination of an actress who was very good at playing her role as Pam, and who looked the way she looked.

    What would I do if I were such a soap character? Just about the same thing Mark did. The reason being necessity. If I acted like a nice guy and waited for her to divorce her husband and be single again, it would be too late. Some other guy will have gotten there first. Any woman who looks like she did is gonna have a lot of guys asking her out, hitting on her, etc. They won't wait until she's divorced. Life doesn't work that way. Maybe that's where the saying "nice guys finish last"comes from.

    @Toni I think "nothing special" is the nicest way you've ever described April or Jenna!

    I remember, even watching Dallas in its original run, that when April made her debut, she caught my attention. She was playing the part of a bad girl though. She had conned her husband by telling the judge they owed a lot of debts (which she racked up on her credit card after jack left her) and the judge awarded April 50% of Jack's future earnings for the next five years. So she was there to get half of his shares in Ewing Oil. So, I didn't like her.

    Then April changed and became a much better lady. I started liking her more. Sheree J. Wilson had something special - a playful quality and an enthusiasm for life that really showed through. April became my favorite lady on Dallas at that time, from then onwards.

    Of course Mark had more time for her.. The man never worked! When he and JR met at the restaurant and JR said the two of them ought to see what they had in common, Mark said the only thing they had in common was they were eating at that restaurant. And the oil business, right? Later I saw how Mark overlooked that minor detail. He spent all his time playing. I guess he really owned an oil company according to the story, but we never saw Mark working there! In fact, we never even saw the building where his oil business was located, did we? Bobby actually worked, so no, he didn't have as much time for Pam as Mark did.

    It's interesting how society uses the word "stalk." It used to have a very clear meaning and there was no confusion over it. To stalk something was to hunt it down with the purpose of eventually killing it i.e. "The lion stalks its prey." Everyone knew what that meant. The lion didn't just follow an animal around the jungle for a while and then walk away and do something else. It stalked it to kill it. Now, everyone uses stalk to mean "follow". Well, why not just use the word "follow" then? People overcomplicate things so much. Did Bobby feel as if he were in danger when April "stalked him"? I would hope not!
     
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