Leaving Neverland

Discussion in 'Documentaries' started by Richard Channing, Mar 3, 2019.

  1. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Star

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    Ome I don't need to be "closeminded" to still offer an opinion. My argument is someone has lied under oath. And how old was Wade Robson when he testified in the 2004-2005 Trial? 22-23.
     
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  2. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Warrior

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    How can you hold an opinion on a documentary you haven't watched?
     
  3. Ome

    Ome Admin

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    Of course, you don't, but at the same time, you can't comment on something you haven't watched. Can you? :confuse:


    I don't understand what your argument is.

    That Michael Jackson lied under oath in denying he had sex with those boys.

    Or

    That Wade Robson lied under oath when he denied the sex abuse from Michael Jackson?



    You're right someone did lie under oath and from my understanding (by way of watching the actual documentary we're all discussing) it appears both Wade & Michael Lied under oath.


    Wade actually believed he would go to jail. Wade lied to his mum, Wade was living a lie for most of his life.
    About that age, however, he was around 7 years old when MJ first had sex with him
     
  4. Richard Channing

    Richard Channing Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    To even attempt to erase Michael Jackson and his music from history is ridiculous and unnecessary. He is still a legend and an icon and I think it's ok that people see him for what he really was, a creepy pedophile and also an incredibly talented and creative superstar that left a huge mark on the music industry, and brought a lot of joy to his many fans. I don't think you can take that away from him, regardless of his crimes.
     
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  5. Ome

    Ome Admin

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    Believe me, there was no enjoyment in watching that documentary.
     
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  6. Ome

    Ome Admin

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    I don't really understand why they want to erase him, ban his music, what he did for the music industry was incredible and his music will live on, however, with the truth finally coming out, people have a choice whether they want to continue listening to his music or not.



    If I'm watching a programme or one of his songs comes on the radio, I'm not about to start switching over, I can appreciate his music while detaching myself from what he was - or at least I think I can.
     
  7. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    But that information is taken from the documentary itself.
     
  8. Ome

    Ome Admin

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    Yes, why?


    It's not like I know any of them personally, all my comments have been based on the documentary. :lol:
     
  9. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Warrior

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    Seriously what is the point of this? Either watch the documentary and then pass comment on it after being informed. Or just don't comment on it. It's not rocket science.
     
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  10. Richard Channing

    Richard Channing Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    Right. I went into the documentary with one view and came out with another one, you can't make a judgement on these guys credibility until you hear what they have to say. It's not enough to say, well they lied before so I'm not even gonna entertain them. People lie for all kinds of reasons and you need to see the doc to hear their explanation. Then make up your mind about them.
     
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  11. James from London

    James from London Soap Chat Mega Star

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    I was a bit wary about watching this, that it would just be prurient and titillating -- a showbiz "did he or didn't he?" dressed up as something more significant -- and I didn't want to be "entertained" by a story of child abuse. But it's much more than that. It's a really gripping, powerful, heartbreaking film. On one hand, it's incredibly personal and intimate, and on the other, it's just so epic, because of who's involved. It's really complicated, there are so many perspectives and no easy answers. Your heart just goes out to everyone involved.
     
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  12. James from London

    James from London Soap Chat Mega Star

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    This is a really good follow up:

     
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  13. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    This is all IGNORANT!!!!
     
  14. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Fan

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    What is...?
     
  15. Ome

    Ome Admin

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    He brainwashed two of the boys, he told them they would go to jail for life if they ever told anyone - He knew what he was doing.

    But don't you think we can learn from history?

    Why indeed?

    I mean, after all, he did create some of the world's best pop videos, he was a genius in pop music during the 80s and 90s. Are you saying that because of all the great work he did in music, he should be given a free pass to child sex abuse?

    Michael Jackson (and his producers) created the 'King of Pop' but behind that was a very disturbed man.

    Because they were brainwashed as children.

    Plus, who are we to decide when a victim of abuse can, or can not speak openly about what happened to them? There's no time limit here.


    To hell with the victims - as long as we don't upset his fans.



    Let's throw all sex abuse cases in the bin and not open up, but why stop there, let's ignore victims of all crimes because who has anything to gain from speaking out?
     
  16. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    With opening lyrics such as "your butt is mine"?
    Smooth Criminal, P.Y.T., Another Part Of Me...

    ...was he trying to tell us something?
     
  17. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

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    52:30: "...Don't let anybody in your world make it about what Michael Jackson did or did not do --- it's about this thing, this insidious pattern, that's happening in our culture that we refuse to look at...."

    Oh, really, Oprah? It really ought to be about what Michael Jackson did or did not do.

    I just find myself feeling like there's a lot of different kinds of grooming going on here.

    On IMDb, they're nearly all rating the documentary as 1 out of 10, or 10 out of 10. With slightly more than half "agreeing" with the pro-doc folks, and slightly less than half "agreeing" with the anti-doc folks. So the topic divides people almost down the center.

    I dunno. Ever since the dam started to break in 1993, I've tended to assume that where there was smoke with MJ there was a fire, and that he was "probably" guilty of something, if not every accusation... This interview with Oprah doesn't affect my ambivalence on the topic. They may be telling the unvarnished truth, or they may be clever accusers who have, in the 21st cyber century, learned to present polished, low-key allegations complete with all the right terminology and references.

    It would help if they weren't suing the estate.

    I'm convinced, and always have been, that Woody Allen is innocent. Other celebs I believe are guilty. With Jackson, I assume he "did something" but don't automatically believe every person pointing a finger.

    It's all so exhausting, and for so many different reasons.

    And as far as the Maureen Dowd quote, I think there are a number of celebrities who don't feel as if their celebrity has superceded their alleged criminality.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
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  18. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    You are missing my point Ome. The point I am trying to make is that opening this can of worms again is only bringing suffering to everyone involved. I don't think anything good can come out of this. :(

    Yes sexual abuse of children is a horrible crime and something that should not happen to anyone.:censer:
    The victims of such abuse do get their lives ruined since it's something that has happened in childhood. It can prevent people from functioning normally and lead to lots of feelings of shame and guilt even though the children are never at fault.

    However what complicates the matter here is that this is not just about sexual abuse. It's about pointing fingers at a famous man who is dead and can not defend himself or be brought to justice. The man was a father to three children who are now ages 17, 21 and 22 years old. How do you think this documentary will affect them?

    Also as for the alleged victims, they are not becoming famous, they are becoming infamous for something that is not positive. By telling their story to the world they are opening up the door for a backlash. Yes some people will believe them and support them. But others will not and having people hate them and not believe them will not do them any good at all. :(
    Their reputation is tainted. Whatever they do in the future the public will always think of them as those poor boys who MJ abused or the liars who ruined MJ's legacy.

    Then as for whether I believe their story or not, I have not made up my mind yet since I haven't seen the documentary in question. It is being broadcast in the upcoming week.

    But I do find it troublesome that these men either lied under oath when MJ was on trial or they are lying now. They can't be telling the truth both times.:confuse:

    I think if they had spoken out while MJ was alive it would have been a different thing, since back then it would have been about trying to prevent MJ from hurting other children the way that he hurt them. But now when MJ is dead them speaking out will only hurt MJ's family and ruin his legacy.

    The way I see it the only one who is gaining anything from this is the director who is gaining critical acclaim for his documentary and it will advance his career.
     
  19. James from London

    James from London Soap Chat Mega Star

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    All of these points are addressed in the film and/or raised and further clarified in the follow-up interview.
     
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  20. Ome

    Ome Admin

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    And I thought I was pretty much on point.

    What, with this thread being about a documentary called LEAVING NEVERLAND and my posts being related to that documentary.

    Like James, Alexis & Richard before him said, you need to watch the documentary and then maybe your posts will be more on point of what everyone is discussing.

    Also, watch the video James posted called AFTER NEVERLAND it's a great summary of the whole documentary.
     
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