1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. It's Coming

    We are very close

    Dismiss Notice

Jessica's backstory from a modern day perspective

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by James from London, Jun 27, 2020.

  1. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Hero EXP: 13 Years

    Threads:
    107
    Messages:
    6,546
    Trophy Points:
    2,638
    Ratings:
    +10,690
    Medals:
    3
    Member Since:
    July 2007
    Only he's not referring to the stereotypes of a 40 year old programme. He says...

    "That's because that's not applicable to men. Are you suggesting he'd be ashamed of being a stud? That's the male persona - it attracts women to men. Always has, always will. That's reality. Political correctness is the denial of reality. What attracts women to men is not the same thing that attracts men to women, thank God! Opposites attract. It's the way of the world. If it weren't, human beings would have gone extinct a long time ago. Male and female behavior each ensure the survival of the human race in their own distinct ways."

    Sounds like his own biological and social ideas to me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator EXP: 18 Years

    Threads:
    285
    Messages:
    13,450
    Trophy Points:
    9,250
    Occupation:
    marriage counselor
    Location:
    Plotville, Shenanigan
    Ratings:
    +24,292
    Medals:
    15
    Member Since:
    April 2002
    No, but it'll feel like it!

    sorry, couldn't resist
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  3. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Hero EXP: 13 Years

    Threads:
    107
    Messages:
    6,546
    Trophy Points:
    2,638
    Ratings:
    +10,690
    Medals:
    3
    Member Since:
    July 2007
    Regarding the younger generation and their views on sex, relationships, and gender roles. I wouldn't imagine so.
     
  4. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Star EXP: 12 Years

    Threads:
    175
    Messages:
    2,672
    Trophy Points:
    1,098
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +2,797
    Medals:
    2
    Why did Dusty say Farlow as his mother's maiden name? Was it a writing error? What do you think?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
  5. James from London

    James from London Soap Chat Winner EXP: 19 Years

    Threads:
    53
    Messages:
    3,826
    Trophy Points:
    6,636
    Occupation:
    Actor
    Location:
    Brixton
    Ratings:
    +6,659
    Medals:
    5
    Member Since:
    Time immemorial
    It was Dusty's first episode. If anything, the "error" came later when they gave Clayton the same surname as his son. But I kind of like southfork88's suggestion that:

    It turns everything on its head!
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 8 Years

    Threads:
    74
    Messages:
    1,781
    Trophy Points:
    1,194
    Location:
    Michigan
    Ratings:
    +1,228
    Medals:
    1
    Member Since:
    Jan 2012
    Regarding the Kennedy’s, the best fiction gets you with the reality of it all.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 8 Years

    Threads:
    74
    Messages:
    1,781
    Trophy Points:
    1,194
    Location:
    Michigan
    Ratings:
    +1,228
    Medals:
    1
    Member Since:
    Jan 2012
    Your point is well taken. I think there’s two things going on. 1) sexual desire and 2) partnership (like settling down, raising a family etc.). In the first case many people of both genders find “studs” and “sluts” (not my words) desirable. Take Hollywood. A lot of both “studs” and “sluts” and many in the world find them attractive. But in the second case, survival of the human species requires more than animal behavior to be desirable. In fact the “stud” who is aggressive, animal like, is often not the best for raising children and creating the best home environment, so men and women tend to settle down with with point wiper who provide more of the characteristics that provide stability to their home, “stud” and “slut” not being among those desirable and stable characteristics of either gender.

    But there’s also a class, money and religious aspect to consent back in the late 40s / early 50s and much of it requires discretion. A pregnant would had trouble keeping her secret more than a man who got a woman pregnant - hence leave the county. In the highest levels of American society discretion was paramount and so women went away and men his entire families (H.L. Hunt). In the western world marriages had been arranged and affairs were tolerated among the elites, as long as paternity wasn’t of issue, regardless of gender - then comes free love, the idea one should be free to marry for love. This isn’t very old in the western world. With it came divorce, though uncommon among the lower classes at first, the elites often got divorced. By the 20s women of a certain level married and divorced and no one batted an eye (Barbra Hutton).

    So I think you’re correct. Sexually both men and women often find both “wild” men and women desirable. And for purposes of procreation often “wild” is an undesirable characteristics, though with enough money Hunt was able to provide stability to three families going on at the same time. Pretty complicated topic which is certainly in flux as society changes to adapt to modern realities.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 8 Years

    Threads:
    74
    Messages:
    1,781
    Trophy Points:
    1,194
    Location:
    Michigan
    Ratings:
    +1,228
    Medals:
    1
    Member Since:
    Jan 2012
    Your rules may apply for your class of people, as you say your observations, but are not applied as universally in nature as you seem to think in the post industrial world. Virginity is an issue of power often desired by both men and women who seek it. Yes there are women in the world who seek it as well and they don’t see that persons reputation as distorted but as something to obtain. When this issue is sought out these people are often predatory or insecure. But both genders have members who seek it out. Also, both genders are attracted to “wild” members of the opposite sex. Hollywood is full of examples of highly desirable “sluts” and “studs.” A woman isn’t less or more desirable than a man for such behavior universally. I see no evidence of that.
     
  9. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 8 Years

    Threads:
    74
    Messages:
    1,781
    Trophy Points:
    1,194
    Location:
    Michigan
    Ratings:
    +1,228
    Medals:
    1
    Member Since:
    Jan 2012
    By the way there’s plenty of evidence of female rock bands “banging” and not marring their groupies as well.
     
  10. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 8 Years

    Threads:
    74
    Messages:
    1,781
    Trophy Points:
    1,194
    Location:
    Michigan
    Ratings:
    +1,228
    Medals:
    1
    Member Since:
    Jan 2012
    I think it might be a classic case of two worlds colliding. Jessica wanted to be part of a different world than the one of the Farlows, I’m guessing a religious, conservative farm family. With oil money all around her she got a glimpse of a different world that was more open to sex out of marriage and marriage to a person you loved opposes to an arranged marriage. I doubt that Clayton’s parents agreed with such and as many say the freedom of a different life style as a mental illness and as the people with the money they’ve expected control - or even if by then Clayton was in charge of the money he wanted control. There’s no reason a women with their money couldn’t raise her son as a single mother. Many women did even then but they were women with power on their own. My guess is Jessica’s father and brother held all the power and so she was “wild” by their definition. She seemed to have done mental illness but certainly it’s fair to ask did her treatment nurture the mental illness? If I had to guess, I’d say it did and that Clayton carried a lot of guilt when it came to his sister.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Franko

    Franko Soap Chat Member EXP: 1 Year

    Threads:
    2
    Messages:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Location:
    North Dakota
    Ratings:
    +52
    Member Since:
    2019
    The Kennedy-Ewingverse conspiracy widens ... Julie Harris attended a White House state dinner in 1962. It was in honor of Andre Malraux, a minister of state for cultural affairs (could this be any more of a Kennedy-era dinner?). Quite the guest list: Malraux, Julie, Charles and Anne Lindbergh, Archibald MacLeish, David Rockefeller, Thornton Wilder, Leonard Bernstein, Tennessee Williams and Arthur Miller, according to a Lindbergh bio.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 2
  12. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle EXP: 19 Years

    Threads:
    545
    Messages:
    7,718
    Trophy Points:
    6,642
    Occupation:
    INFJ
    Location:
    Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
    Ratings:
    +9,868
    Medals:
    7
    Member Since:
    September 2000
    With two brothers shot four years apart, the elder a philanderer named John with a wife who whispers, the younger named Bobby. There's a third brother who drinks named, or played by, a Ted.

    DALLAS had some structural parallels to the Kennedys. I always wanted DYNASTY to have some tonal parallels to the Kennedys, but no such luck.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. southfork88

    southfork88 Soap Chat Addict

    Threads:
    10
    Messages:
    1,154
    Trophy Points:
    892
    Location:
    Italy
    Ratings:
    +1,598
    Member Since:
    2008
    I think when Clayton tells the whole Ewing family he warned Dusty that Jessica was his mother, lied to the family avoid admitting that Dusty already knew everything. And I have a question for you. Was officially said that Amy's last name was Wayne? Thanks !
     
  14. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Star EXP: 12 Years

    Threads:
    175
    Messages:
    2,672
    Trophy Points:
    1,098
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +2,797
    Medals:
    2
    Write a book about the music business if you want. Of course it would have to be fiction.


    Three red Xs. Wow. It's not exactly the same as offering another perspective containing some or any intellectual substance, is it? I don't see anything here about Dallas. You do realize this forum is for Dallas related discussion, don't you?

    Since you brought me and "my class of people" into it:

    As for my observations, I've been around the world and have yet to have found a country where Jessica's type of behavior, acting like a slut, is seen as virtuous or as a plus in any way. Wilt Chamberlin claims to have had sex with 20,000 women. Gene Simmons has about 5,000 women on his resume. I guess he was more selective. You won't find any woman in the world who is a star of their magnitude who would be willing to brag about the number of men she has had sex with. The world doesn't work that way.

    I was making a point that Clayton protected Jessica by taking her to a foreign country so that she wouldn't get the type of undesirable reputation a woman like her would get. It worked for a while.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  15. James from London

    James from London Soap Chat Winner EXP: 19 Years

    Threads:
    53
    Messages:
    3,826
    Trophy Points:
    6,636
    Occupation:
    Actor
    Location:
    Brixton
    Ratings:
    +6,659
    Medals:
    5
    Member Since:
    Time immemorial
    I'm pretty sure the name was only mentioned once, by Sue Ellen in Rodeo: "I thought the Wayne family owned that."
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Star EXP: 12 Years

    Threads:
    175
    Messages:
    2,672
    Trophy Points:
    1,098
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +2,797
    Medals:
    2
    Thanks for the actual Dallas related discussion @southfork88. It was starting to become a rarity here. Your idea that Clayton warned Dusty ahead of time is certainly possible. My question would be: Why pass up a chance to show as dramatic a moment as Dusty finding out his mother wasn't who he thought? I'd think that would have thrown him for loop. It would make entertaining TV and that was what they were going for. So yeah, I think it's possible, but unlikely.

    Good question! That was sort of a throwaway line in one of the earlier episodes. I don't recall exactly what was said. If you want to look for it, I believe it was said in the first rodeo related episode. However, to the best of my recollection, Dusty told Sue Ellen he was from the Southern Cross Ranch and Sue asked him isn't that the Wayne ranch? Dusty says, yeah, but his mother's name was Farlow so he goes by Farlow.

    OK. Apparently Dusty doesn't want to gain fame by riding on his dad's coattails. Admirable enough. Except then Clayton is introduced as Clayton Farlow. I think it's safe to say that someone in the creative department was asleep at the wheel. Or I don't remember it accurately. Take your pick.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  17. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 8 Years

    Threads:
    74
    Messages:
    1,781
    Trophy Points:
    1,194
    Location:
    Michigan
    Ratings:
    +1,228
    Medals:
    1
    Member Since:
    Jan 2012
    You brought up the music business so I’ll wait for your story. I’m not really interested in it.

    I don’t care about your travels, as seeing things isn’t the same as understanding culture nor all the sub groups in a culture. You’re correct I don’t know any scenario where women “brag” about their number of sexual partners in the same way, but women have bragged about the quality of their sexual conquests. Barbara Hutton and Doris Duke both married Porfirio Rubirosa and it was well known his desirability was the size of his penis. Being with this man, and married to him was an issue of “bragging” rights for many women. Of course these are examples of women who were extremely wealthy without a man controlling their money. Jessica apparently was not. So while I’ll agree women don’t generally brag about thousands of lovers, but then most men don’t either, there are women who do brag about the quality of their lovers and among some women it’s a boost to their reputation just as 20,000 women is a boost to the reputation of some men among some men (not me).

    I was making the point that it appears your class of people and Clayton’s class of people might have found her behavior as a hit to her reputation but that doesn’t mean in either case either person has the right to control another person. There are places where women and men, including the English aristocracy where she was sent, do engage in a more “wild” if still “discrete” behavior. In terms of American oil check out the Getty family. Yes the money and thus power is still in the hands of a man, but when money and power are in the hands of women, many women engage in this “wild” behavior. Some classes encourage it among men and discourage it among women. Some encourage it among both but require discretion. And all other sorts of endless variety in an endless number of groups around the world and throughout time. Most of a man’s ability to “brag” is tied to his historical control of money and is only bragging to other men. I don’t know many women who would find such bragging desirable in those men. Women like most men are generally more discrete but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen and yes discreetly women have been know to brag of sexual partners.

    The point is control - where in the Farlow family the men held control they determined what behavior was acceptable. If Jessica had control her behavior might of been looked down on by the men in her family, but they wouldn’t be able to ship her off to Europe and take her son. Your view point, observation, is very narrow, and probably much like Clayton himself, but even back then it wasn’t the only view point and certainly not today. Women and men equally engage in “wild” behavior without shame and even brag and while some disapprove, many do not, and further more consider it none of their business to judge one way or another.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator EXP: 18 Years

    Threads:
    285
    Messages:
    13,450
    Trophy Points:
    9,250
    Occupation:
    marriage counselor
    Location:
    Plotville, Shenanigan
    Ratings:
    +24,292
    Medals:
    15
    Member Since:
    April 2002
    Well, she got to see more of the world, ironically.
    To be fair, it was your broader stance on the slut/stud issue that moved the topic away from "Dallas". Not that it bothered me, but I don't see why forum members who respond to your statements need to be blamed for going "off-topic".
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 3
  19. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Star EXP: 12 Years

    Threads:
    175
    Messages:
    2,672
    Trophy Points:
    1,098
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +2,797
    Medals:
    2
    Yeah, I get it.

    There is no woman who is a star of that magnitude who would brag about about it because it would badly tarnish her reputation. It would ruin her career. Masculinity and femininity exist and they're distinctly different. Don't get mad at me if you don't like it. I didn't invent these ideas that men and women, in general, behave differently and are attracted to different things. If you look through this thread you'll see I'm not making value judgements on masculine and feminine behavior; I'm describing reality. I specifically chose not to make value judgements on those subjects. Looking at the responses here, you wouldn't know it, but it's the truth. That we're living in an age where simply describing the nature of reality can be seen as controversial by some people says something, but that's their problem. Reality exists whether they like it or not.

    Dallas is fiction, yet they attempted to maintain a certain semblance to reality. It's not in the best interest of a single woman the age Jessica would have been at that time to get pregnant. That she'd be thoughtless enough to engage in behavior where that was likely to happen, so indiscriminately that the father was unknown, was embarrassing enough that they took her out of the country. I'm not saying it should or should not have been embarrassing. Again, I'm not making a value judgement; I'm describing the story. Apparently that sort of thing needs to be emphasized here. I'm not sure why that is. Ray mentioned something about how he imagined that would have caused quite a scandal and Clayton said it would have. It wasn't Ray's idea or Clayton's idea that it should be scandalous; they were simply commenting that it likely would be.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  20. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Star EXP: 12 Years

    Threads:
    175
    Messages:
    2,672
    Trophy Points:
    1,098
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +2,797
    Medals:
    2
    It wasn't my intention to move the topic away from Dallas. I thought what I was writing still related to Dallas because I came across a question from a reader who seemed to genuinely be confused as to why Jessica would be treated one way and Clayton treated another in their specific circumstances. The question I was asked is:

    Knowing how controversial the answer to that question would be, I would have simply answered: "Should" did not enter into the matter. Clayton acted upon what was - not what "should" be.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020

Share This Page