1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Dallas Actors How did Susan Howard not know...

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Grangehill1, Jul 12, 2017.

  1. Grangehill1

    Grangehill1 Soap Chat Member

    Threads:
    39
    Messages:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Location:
    Wales
    Ratings:
    +94
    ... that she would be leaving the show? Isn't she meant to have found out whilst in make up one day and was told there was no break and they were going straight into the next series? And she hadn't been told this?

    Surely she would have guessed she be leaving? In season ten Donna makes Fewer and fewer appearances. She has almost no interaction with any main cast members towards the end. Wouldn't susan have guessed something was up and maybe it was time to talk to the bosses about where her character was going?

    How on earth did she not know/guess that the character was coming to the end?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. KayLloyd

    KayLloyd Soap Chat Fan EXP: 3 Years

    Threads:
    12
    Messages:
    402
    Trophy Points:
    377
    Location:
    United States
    Ratings:
    +565
    Well, my sense of her is that she is a trusting soul who tries to see the good in everyone and doesn't play Hollywood games. In my experience, when your boss and co-workers in his/her inner circle stop interacting with you as much and your workload is being decreased, those are major red flags that your days are numbered and you should be polishing up your resume. Susan somehow unfortunately missed those flags, but it was still really lousy of Katzman to let her find out from someone other than him. He owed her the courtesy of telling her privately that she wouldn't be back the next season.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
    • Like Like x 4
  3. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator EXP: 21 Years Staff Member

    Threads:
    522
    Messages:
    5,559
    Trophy Points:
    6,136
    Occupation:
    Actress
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Ratings:
    +6,793
    As I read it, she was told she was 'surplus to requirements', but I can't remember by whom. :(
     
  4. Toni

    Toni Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 18 Years

    Threads:
    45
    Messages:
    3,411
    Trophy Points:
    4,844
    Occupation:
    Aspiring writer and factual webmaster
    Location:
    Fletcher Sanitarium, Barcelona, Spain
    Ratings:
    +5,970
    I agree with you, Katzman was so lousy with her pulling a Donna Reed...In fact, soaps often make couples apart and they continue on the show (eg Bobby and Pam, Sue Ellen and J.R.) but if so, it´s a sign that they will reconcile. I think that´s what Susan must have thought at the time: that having a baby together, Donna would eventually return to Ray and the Jennaskank would bite the dust. In an interview found in YouTube, Susan said that she was told that her character "had run its course"...ahem, good for her to have such a sense of humor...;)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. tommie

    tommie Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 3 Years

    Threads:
    308
    Messages:
    3,312
    Trophy Points:
    1,407
    Location:
    Sweden
    Ratings:
    +3,986
    I mean, this is not exactly unheard of - a lot of actors presume they're back next season, only then the writers and producers decide to cut them for various reasons (creative or simply for budget reasons; the last one probably being the reason for her getting kicked out). As @Toni points out Donna just had a baby with Ray, so why would she be written out? It's not logical to write out someone who just had a Ewing heir, but here we are.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle EXP: 19 Years

    Threads:
    540
    Messages:
    7,553
    Trophy Points:
    6,642
    Occupation:
    INFJ
    Location:
    Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
    Ratings:
    +9,666
    I assume you're idealizing her because she's an NRA conservative. But Miss Howard, like so many others, was treated badly by the show, just as BBG and Reed and Rambo appeared to have been.

    In fact, Susan Howard said about Donna Reed's offense at being dumped, "but it's Hollywood!" implying that you can't expect fair or dignified treatment.

    Howard also showed objectivity when she described things like the dream resolution as examples of the audience "being abused" which is absolutely the correct way to describe it.

    After a while, DALLAS seemed to become contemptuous of its fan base, just as DYNASTY seemed to eventually resent its actors.

    Anyway, collective assumption is that Katzman dumped her because she'd publicly criticized the dream resolution. She also makes it sound as if Uncle Lenny was trying to offend her by using an abortion plotline he knew she'd rebel against. And her entering "the Arlington Suite" in Washington was certainly Howard's equivalent to Reed's line "this star is fading fast" in her final episode. And why put Susan in an all-black outfit for her final Southfork barbecue unless you're just vindictively trying to make the woman uncomfortable?? Whatever the reason for Susan Howard being fired (as Lorimar began cutting second string actors once they were bought out by Telepictures in 1986) the timing did seem a bit off --- Donna Krebbs and her D.C. contacts would have been obviously useful for the next season's attempt to get the Ewing company back.

    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 3 Years

    Threads:
    30
    Messages:
    3,028
    Trophy Points:
    1,632
    Location:
    Newcastle, New South Wales, Australia
    Ratings:
    +4,872
    Over the years Susan has been the only person brave enough to speak out about the Dream Season resolution. For that I give her credit. She genuinely appeared to have the fans best interests at heart rather than accept the fat cheques others were so gleefully ripping from the coffers.

    Personally I liked the character of Donna. She was articulate without stepping into being obnoxious. When Bobby went through his Jackie Onassis sunglasses stage (after dropping to the floor like a wet fish) I thought it was clever by the writers to have Donna represent Bobby at Ewing Oil. No way in hell was JR going to outsmart this woman. But like other stories it all came to naught. It was occasions like this and others which frustrated me most about Dallas. We couldn't allow a strong, articulate woman like Donna challenge the almighty and powerful JR. It would appear the moment Larry spewed forth those words he picked up the phone and said to Lenny, "I don't like the direction of this story, change it."
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle EXP: 19 Years

    Threads:
    540
    Messages:
    7,553
    Trophy Points:
    6,642
    Occupation:
    INFJ
    Location:
    Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
    Ratings:
    +9,666
    Although I suspect it was Lenny who had the most problem with the Southfork women being "too strong"; I don't get the impression Larry minded a whit.
     
  9. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 3 Years

    Threads:
    30
    Messages:
    3,028
    Trophy Points:
    1,632
    Location:
    Newcastle, New South Wales, Australia
    Ratings:
    +4,872
    If so, that was Leonard's Achilles heal. Clearly Leonard was living in the 50's with that attitude. Was he not watching the competition, Dynasty (Alexis and Krystle), Knots Landing (with its array of strong willed women), Falcon Crest (Angela Channing) to realize the world was changing? Over the years of watching Dallas it's been interesting to note not many stories refer to the women of Dallas being labelled as a "Bitch", unlike other female characters from those other shows. Some may argue Katherine Wentworth was a bitch, but I don't see Katherine that way. She fell for the wrong bloke and was dreaming of the day she could do unspeakable acts with Bobby.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle EXP: 19 Years

    Threads:
    540
    Messages:
    7,553
    Trophy Points:
    6,642
    Occupation:
    INFJ
    Location:
    Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
    Ratings:
    +9,666
    Katzman would allow women who didn't live at Southfork to be "strong", like Donna and Marilee Stone and Angelica Nero (whom he created). But Ellie and Sue Ellen and Pam always had to be docile when dealing with their menfolk -- and when Mama dared tell Jock that he "disgusted" her, she then was relegated to another year-ending scene in the Krebbs' living room where she'd confess to being a whore & a bitch & a c*** and a slut, so you'd know she was contrite for stepping out of line.

    Pseudo-writer Howard Lakin was quoted as describing Katzman as "controlling" and seeing women as accessories, as being very moved by the father-son legacy dynamic, and "hating" feminstic women.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  11. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat TV Fanatic EXP: 10 Years

    Threads:
    183
    Messages:
    1,586
    Trophy Points:
    587
    Location:
    California
    Ratings:
    +962
    I think most of the men were absolutely disgusting BTS, with Hagman in the lead.

    However, it is a bit odd that she didn't see the end of Donna coming up. I mean, I was 11 when these episodes were first aired and even I saw it!!!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Barbara Fan

    Barbara Fan Super Moderator Staff Member

    Threads:
    264
    Messages:
    5,200
    Trophy Points:
    7,868
    Location:
    Scotland
    Ratings:
    +11,424
    Phil Capice publicly supported Susan Howard over her refusal to let "Donna" have an abortion in the dream season saying it was not the kind of thing that Donna would do
    she said that on a radio 2 interview called Good morning Sunday back in mid 80s
    Phil had said leave it with me, Donna will not have an abortion
    my guess is her card was marked after that!
     
    • Like Like x 3
  13. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat TV Fanatic EXP: 10 Years

    Threads:
    183
    Messages:
    1,586
    Trophy Points:
    587
    Location:
    California
    Ratings:
    +962
    No, Donna would never have an abortion, BUT......the show dropped the ball when she miscarried. The show had not yet known that season would be a dream, so they did wimp out on it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat TV Fanatic EXP: 10 Years

    Threads:
    183
    Messages:
    1,586
    Trophy Points:
    587
    Location:
    California
    Ratings:
    +962
    I also believe that she was one of the only friends Donna Reed had during her short tenure on the show (she is the only one that went to her funeral).
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Presea

    Presea Soap Chat Addict

    Threads:
    6
    Messages:
    933
    Trophy Points:
    682
    Location:
    North America, Michigan
    Ratings:
    +1,499
    I didn't think that Katherine was a bitch, either. After season 5 (dvd), she just seems more angry and unhappy than anything else. Seriously, after Rebecca's death, when have we ever seen this woman having a true, genuine moment of happiness? (And I do not count those obsessive, over-the-top "OMG, it looks I am going to get Bobby!" smiles, or those trademark wicked smirks she made behind Pam's back).

    There is a huge difference in Katherine's overall demeanor and lifestyle once season 5 (dvd) is over. And that is because once the writers realized that she would be sticking around for more than just a few episodes after Morgan Brittany signed a contract to come back in season 6 (dvd), they realized that they could not handle having such a strong and successful female character with a real career, lots of money, and who was not whining about a relationship or love interest every five minutes. Even Morgan Brittany herself stated in an interview that: "My character is strong." back when she was still in season 5 (dvd) and had not been called back to Dallas yet. But it seems to me that a lot of people completely ignore the obvious circumstances that led the writers to change her character, and just incorrectly assume that Katherine had always been obsessed with Bobby and hated Pam.

    As for your comment about Katherine dreaming about doing "unspeakable acts" with Bobby, I have to disagree with you there. Compared to all of the other women who had a thing for him, Katherine actually displays the least amount of showing any signs of being physically attracted to him. Whereas most of the others made various types of physical contact with Bobby (kissing him when he doesn't even ask for it, various forms of touching, leaning, etc.), Katherine really didn't do very much in comparison. She did not even make any comments about Bobby's physical appearance. Katherine basically just expected Bobby to know how she felt about him, with barely any types of real signals or communication on her part that would have been necessary to get the message across to someone as dumb as him. Katherine seemed almost more like a child with storybook ideas about a prince sweeping her away to live happily ever after with him. JR even sort of mocked Katherine by saying that she sounded like a schoolgirl after she mentioned that she has had a crush on Bobby ever since she first him. And once Katherine's sanity REALLY starts to crumble with the arrival of Miss Priss (Jenna Wade), it is not even about being in love anymore. It becomes simply about achieving the goal of getting Bobby, with no real idea or explanation of what her future plans with him even are anymore.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
    • Like Like x 2
  16. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat TV Fanatic EXP: 10 Years

    Threads:
    183
    Messages:
    1,586
    Trophy Points:
    587
    Location:
    California
    Ratings:
    +962
    Jenna always seemed just one heartbeat away from dropping to her knees whenever Bobby walked in a room....
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. JROG

    JROG Soap Chat Well-Known Member EXP: 14 Years

    Threads:
    42
    Messages:
    822
    Trophy Points:
    4,186
    Location:
    Lotus Point
    Ratings:
    +2,003
    This was never more obvious than when Pam would be strong, smart, witty, harsh but wise at the office in Season 10 but then would go to Southfork and immediately turn into a whiny little woman, as if suddenly possessed by some mysterious energy while on the premises.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle EXP: 19 Years

    Threads:
    540
    Messages:
    7,553
    Trophy Points:
    6,642
    Occupation:
    INFJ
    Location:
    Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
    Ratings:
    +9,666
    Yes, fascinatingly weird, wasn't it?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. JR Ewing Fan

    JR Ewing Fan Soap Chat Active Member

    Threads:
    0
    Messages:
    109
    Trophy Points:
    1,678
    Location:
    PA
    Ratings:
    +193
    The minute they separated her from the family and moved her to D.C. the writing was on the wall.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Presea

    Presea Soap Chat Addict

    Threads:
    6
    Messages:
    933
    Trophy Points:
    682
    Location:
    North America, Michigan
    Ratings:
    +1,499
    LOL, for sure! Whether it was craziness or because they wanted a relationship with him, so many women on Dallas acted like it was the end of the world whenever they couldn't be with Bobby. It was like, "boo, hoo, hoo! My life sucks so much just because Bobby doesn't want to marry me!" I'm willing to forgive Katherine a bit because she had already lost it from her parents deaths. But I don't know why all of the other women were so freakin' melodramatic about Bobby! I gotta give Donna credit for not turning into one of Bobby's fangirls. She was certainly intelligent enough to know not to get caught up in the Curse of Bobby Ewing!
     

Share This Page