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Do You Consider Dallas To Be Art?

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Kenny Coyote, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. Mel O'Drama

    Mel O'Drama Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I would hope that any character is capable of redemption. Therein lies the journey.


    By the same token, life can be extraordinary. And when art captures the ordinary it can be a beautiful thing.


    As reflected in my comment just above, I'm not convinced the two have to be mutually exclusive.


    Well, it wouldn't be a great thing as a sole source of information. But a good proportion of TV shows could be viewed as study of human behaviour on some level.
     
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  2. James from London

    James from London Soap Chat Mega Star

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    That's got me thinking about OZ, HBO's first-ever drama series and one of my all-time favourite TV shows. It's set in a maximum-security prison full of white supremacists, child killers, drug addicts, etc. The staff are often even less sympathetic than the inmates. Even the liberal do-gooder who runs the wing where most of the series is set is driven as much by his own ego as his ideals. At one point, Rita Moreno's character, a nun called Sister Pete, is asked why she chooses to work there amongst the lowest of the low, the dregs of humanity. "Because that's where God is," she replies.



    I found/find it endlessly fascinating, and impossible to second guess. It's also hugely funny. You could watch the whole thing as a comedy of manners.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
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  3. Mel O'Drama

    Mel O'Drama Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Another one I haven't got round to watching even though I've heard a little about it. That scene you posted intrigued me enough to research the characters a little more. Fatal, of course. And there was a spoiler or two. But maybe it was worth it to convince me.


    Well now I have to watch it before I die.



    I suspect Six Feet Under will be my next HBO (whenever "next" is). I've heard too many good things about it.
     
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  4. J. R.'s Piece

    J. R.'s Piece Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    Oh, several of the most popular lead characters past and present on Hollyoaks have killed people. Emmett Scanlan won a bunch of awards for his role as Brendan Brady. Brendan was really funny but also scary, delightfully weird, protective and an abusive multiple murderer battling his own demons. Multiple murderer thug/bad boy Warren Fox (currently on the run in Spain with his kidnapped twins) is one of the most popular characters on Hollyoaks and about to begin full-time stint number four, after a couple of guest appearances after his last stint. But Warren is written so you can understand his motives and he does have a emotionally vulnerable side and loyalties. Executive Producer Bryan Kirkwood said of Warren's latest permanent return to Hollyoaks (despite the mother of Warren's twins, the son of his that he tried to murder and the family of his most recent murder victim still being there), "Warren Fox is one of our greatest ever characters and our most dynamic, complex villain. Jamie Lomas is a leading man who we can't wait to have back."

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Wintry North Poleson

    Wintry North Poleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    Excellent choice, and I think that The Affair will also be very much your cup of tea.

    SFU, Sopranos, The Wire, OZ, Nip/Tuck, True Detective, Carnivale - they're all must-see TV.
    In Treatment is still in my to-watch list.

    Of course it's not possible to like them all - Deadwood and The News Room were the biggest disappointments for me, eventhough The Guardian considers Deadwood THE best HBO series of all time.
     
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  6. James from London

    James from London Soap Chat Mega Star

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    I really loved SIX FEET UNDER but strangely the ending was just such a definitive ENDING it's almost obliterated everything that came before it from my memory. I really must revisit the whole thing one day. FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS had a really big ENDING as well, which made me realise that I think I prefer series that have smaller endings or ones that don't end, that just stop, like PEYTON PLACE. Somehow they linger in the memory more.

    What an absolute gem that series is.

    I didn't like NIP/TUCK anywhere near as much as the others.

    Loved it, loved it, loved it, loved it. I've yet to find anyone else who's even seen it!

    I really enjoyed the first two seasons of DEADWOOD, but they're all I've seen and it's so long ago now I've forgotten everything that happened so I'll have to start again from scratch one day.
     
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  7. Mel O'Drama

    Mel O'Drama Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The only scene I've ever watched from Nip/Tuck had Ben Lucini flopping out his giant résumé at a dinner party, while Valene and Abby Ewing and Mandy Winger gasped with anticipatory delight.

    I'd probably be up for giving it a go.
     
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  8. Wintry North Poleson

    Wintry North Poleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    It revels in its no holds barred nastiness. OZ was brutal, but Nip/Tuck was disturbing.

    Warning for Mel: it might tarnish your fond memories of Christine Cagney;)
     
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  9. Mel O'Drama

    Mel O'Drama Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Out of interest, are there newer series that don't end? I know audiences expect a really satisfying (and yes, definitive) ending and I'd imagine it's increasingly difficult to deliver it in a lowercase ending kind of way.

    Watching some older British sitcoms, most of them just have a regular episode at the end. It can seem a little underwhelming but I agree that they can resonate in a very special way. The ones I most want to revisit are the ones that don't have an ending. They just carry on.

    It would probably take a brave writer to deliver a non-ending in any genre these days, but I'd love to know if there are recent examples.
     
  10. Wintry North Poleson

    Wintry North Poleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    Is it possible to enjoy this if you don't like watching sport?
     
  11. Mel O'Drama

    Mel O'Drama Super Moderator Staff Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Mel O'Drama

    Mel O'Drama Super Moderator Staff Member

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    For what it's worth I had reservations about the teen basketball backdrop to One Tree Hill but I thoroughly enjoyed it.
     
  13. Wintry North Poleson

    Wintry North Poleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    I'm probably cheating here, because TYRANT was cancelled - but somehow it felt as if it had to end (or actually, not-really-end) the way it did.
     
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  14. Wintry North Poleson

    Wintry North Poleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    Don't bitch-slap the messenger!
     
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  15. James from London

    James from London Soap Chat Mega Star

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    My memory is that it got a bit self-consciously wacky, kind of like DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES but darker.

    None that spring to mind, not intentionally. HANNIBAL was cancelled before it could have a proper ENDING, but the way it stopped felt quite satisfying.

    Very definitely. You don't need to know any more about American football to enjoy FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS than you do about oil to enjoy DALLAS. All you have to know is it matters. I've a feeling you'd really enjoy it.
     
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  16. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    What a great show that was! Easily in my top 5 of the last 20 years. Connie Britton and Kyle Chandler portrayed the realest, best married couple on TV. What a refreshing change it was to see the two leads in a drama not being in yet another dysfunctional marriage. The whole 'dysfunctional marriage" and "dysfunctional family" thing has been done to death in the TV of the 21st century!
     
  17. Wintry North Poleson

    Wintry North Poleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    Ordered.
     
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  18. Jimmy Todd

    Jimmy Todd Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    A friend of mine and his girlfriend recently saw an exhibit of Robert Mapplethorpe's photography and got into a debate about whether it was art or just exploitation of gay, Black men. Mapplethorpe's art can be very graphic. So, can anything in the right context. And including what the viewer brings to it, be considered art?
     
  19. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    One of the best exchanges in Friday Night Lights:

    Matta Saracen: I 'd like your permission to marry your daughter, sir.

    Coach Eric Taylor: (laughs) You what? Say that again?

    Matt: I would like to marry Julie. I love her completely and I'm gonna take care of her for the rest of her life so I'd just really like, I'd like your blessing to ask her, to marry me sir

    Coach Eric Taylor: Matt, how old are you?

    Matt: Nineteen

    Coach Taylor: You're only nineteen years old.

    Matt: Yes sir.

    Coach Eric Taylor: Matt, how old is my daughter?

    Matt: Eighteen

    Coach Eric Taylor: She's eighteen

    Matt: Yes sir. I've, I've got a job up in Chicago, at a uh, well I've already got me two promotions...

    Coach Taylor: The answer to your question is no. The answer to your question is gonna be no today, it's gonna be no tomorrow, and it'll probably be no until the sun burns out. Is that clear?

    Matt: The thing is sir, we don't actually need your permission.

    Coach Taylor: You damn well do need my permission!

    Matt: We actually don't...I already asked her She already said yes, so you know this is really just a courtesy...

    Coach Taylor: Let me do you the courtesy of telling you that my daughter's answer to you is "no."

    If some 19 year old kid not only asked me for permission to marry my eighteen year old daughter, but had the gall to tell me "this is really just a courtesy, we really don't need your permission"I wouldn't have been able to show the restraint that Coach Taylor did. I love Coach Taylor's response. I just really wish he'd stuck to his convictions.
     
  20. James from London

    James from London Soap Chat Mega Star

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    Interesting article/interview about The Sopranos in yesterday's Guardian.

    If The Sopranos was groundbreaking at its debut two decades ago, it now occupies an even rarer category: a show that has become more admired and beloved with time. The Guardian has named The Sopranos the best TV show of the century so far, and its influence continues to be felt across viewing platforms that didn’t exist at the time of its conception. The prestige TV series, which unspools like a Russian novel but engages like a telenovela, set the tone for the boom in high-quality binge-programming – funny, smart, acutely well-observed and immensely addictive – that has reinvented the form.

    ***

    Chase conceived of The Sopranos after decades of writing for network shows such as The Rockford Files and Northern Exposure. He was entirely unsurprised when Fox turned down the idea. “They don’t trust their audience at all,” he says. The Sopranos was too indeterminate; not a straightforward mob drama but not a mob comedy, either, although it is funny. In terms of character development, it’s too slow for network tastes. And then there was Tony himself. “I think they were afraid of it. Because how could you like this guy?”

    The Sopranos ended up at HBO. Surprisingly, Chase thinks it would have a tough time being commissioned today, in spite of the fact that, after six seasons and 86 episodes, it is credited with changing audience tastes. “In this landscape? Sure,” he says. “Tony Soprano is too fat. He’s too crude. Who cares about New Jersey? I’ve seen these guys before.” There is a long pause. “It’s not dystopian enough. Everything seems to be dystopian now, and this isn’t.”

    ***

    It was Gandolfini’s charm, says Chase, that accounted for so much of the show’s popularity, particularly the tricky act of getting audiences to sympathise with a killer. “I could tell you a million reasons, but one of them, I’m pretty sure, is that Jim Gandolfini was a magnet. He was impeccable. His eyes are sad. They’re alive. His problems are our problems.”

    ***

    The one thing Chase has no anxiety about is The Sopranos’ endlessly deliberated ending. It ended the show with a precise degree of ambiguity that honoured the subtleties of the preceding six series, although its lack of resolution left some viewers complaining that they wanted closure. “I would say that there’s more symmetry than meets the eye,” he says. But the whole point of the ending was to avoid wrapping it up too neatly.

    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/sep/16/david-chase-the-sopranos-best-tv-21st-century
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
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