Different tone when Sue Ellen Shot JR

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Herofan, May 31, 2019.

  1. Herofan

    Herofan Soap Chat Member

    Message Count:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Location:
    U.S.
    Ratings:
    +89
    I just watched the season premier episode after Sue Ellen shot JR. I thought of how the tone changed from the days of the “Who shot J.R.” days. In the latter, it’s almost a joke. The shots run out to be nothing serious, Bobby is laughing at J.R. by his hospital bed over his lame attempt to get back in the business, nobody seems too concerned about J.R. , and he makes a recovery during the episode.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 3
  2. Justine

    Justine Soap Chat Fan

    Message Count:
    446
    Trophy Points:
    377
    Location:
    U.K.
    Ratings:
    +700
    Funny because I watched this exact episode today, too, and my reaction was the same. I also watched the final scene in the previous season finale and honestly how Sue Ellen shot J.R. was so unbelievable, not to mention when she tried to play it off as if she was scared of him - as if J.R. would actually kill hero_O I think, it was especially untrue to her character when she showed no remorse and quite obviously wished him dead. He was the father of her only child; she would have definitely been upset, no matter what state their relationship was in.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. Mustard

    Mustard Soap Chat Fan

    Message Count:
    440
    Trophy Points:
    377
    Ratings:
    +709
    Member Since:
    23 October 2014
    Agreed. It was also very odd how it was all approached once Season 12 DVD started. When Season 12 DVD started, they just didn't grasp the emotion of the moment from the end of Season 11 DVD. The seriousness of Sue Ellen shooting J.R. just wasn't there at all, Sue Ellen didn't seem to care much about Nicholas having died until way into the season when his dad showed up, and J.R.'s situation in the hospital was reduced to a joke, from J.R. faking illness, to his relatives showing no concern. It was bad writing. Maybe with David Paulsen gone after Nicholas went over the balcony, some bad writing crept in straight away.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Mel O'Drama

    Mel O'Drama Super Moderator Staff Member

    Message Count:
    4,822
    Trophy Points:
    5,561
    Ratings:
    +9,268
    Medals:
    9
    Member Since:
    28th September 2008
    Around the time of the launch of S11 in autumn of '88 I have memories of reading an article in a UK publication discussing the new season and the budget cuts (I can't remember where I read it or who was interviewed, but I'd guess it was a producer). As I remember, there were quotes about efforts to tweak the formula slightly, with a move towards more self-contained episodes, less location work and fewer long running stories. It came across that the powers that be knew that the prime time soap had been usurped in popularity by the sitcom, and Dallas was on notice. But it also felt like they were experimenting as a result of that, and trying to introduce a few more sitcom-y elements into their show. All of which was, of course, to the show's detriment.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Matthew Blaisdel

    Matthew Blaisdel Soap Chat Dream Maker

    Message Count:
    1,914
    Trophy Points:
    2,396
    Occupation:
    enjoying life
    Location:
    past orbit, on the way out of the solar system
    Ratings:
    +3,315
    Medals:
    2
    Member Since:
    sometime 2005 (i guess)
    Yes, that was very unbelievable. I mean - who shoots SO BAD on such short distance that 3 (!!) bullets have almost NO effect? And Sue Ellen wasn't even drunk! :lol:
    But the worst out of character moment for Sue Ellen came right at the beginning of the season premiere at the police station. "Almost??? You mean that bastard is still ALIVE???!!" :re:
    And that "police station" looked so fake, it was a very lame little set. You could really tell from the first minute, that they were going the very cheap road from then on. :(
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Top Jimmy

    Top Jimmy Soap Chat Active Member

    Message Count:
    102
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Location:
    USA
    Ratings:
    +230
    Medals:
    3
    Member Since:
    2004
    "The only joke is she had three chances and she missed." I love Lucy's reaction to JR's shooting.


     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

    Message Count:
    4,432
    Trophy Points:
    5,636
    Occupation:
    Actress
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Ratings:
    +5,719
    Medals:
    5
    Member Since:
    1998
    THANK YOU.

    Once this happened, we were (as in Dallas) doomed.

    Nothing was ever ever the same once these two parted. Beginning of the end. Thank you @Justine - worded perfectly, couldn't have put it better myself. (And I have a LOT to say on the subject!)

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

    Message Count:
    1,408
    Trophy Points:
    690
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +1,595
    Even it that was true, there is no way that strategy could have worked.

    Dallas had to stick with the formula that made them great and give Dallas fans what they watched Dallas for. Once you start to try to imitate sit-coms and compete with them, you're guaranteed to lose. No matter what Dallas did, they'd never be a sit-com. So in a contest with sit-coms for their audience, the audience will determine that yes, Dallas, has some elements of what they like about sit-coms, there could be similarities, but Dallas would always fall short of delivering to the audience what a sit-com gives them. While that's happening, you alienate your core audience! That's a plan for failure.

    You don't try to beat sit-coms at their own game when you're a drama. You make the best drama you can and make the other TV dramas try to beat you at your game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

    Message Count:
    4,432
    Trophy Points:
    5,636
    Occupation:
    Actress
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Ratings:
    +5,719
    Medals:
    5
    Member Since:
    1998
    [​IMG]

    What I wish I had sent the writers back then.
     
  10. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

    Message Count:
    1,408
    Trophy Points:
    690
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +1,595
    Lucy's role changed and showed that move towards competing with sit-coms. Did Lucy have any real purpose in her last several seasons? All she did was make jokes. The problem was, I never heard anyone laugh at her jokes. She wasn't funny.

    When Linda Gray left Dallas that was one time when I was glad to see an original cast member leave. They did the Sue Ellen - JR romance to death. They break up. They get together. They break up again. They reconcile. They break up. How many times did we need to see that cycle repeated??? Their relationship always goes horribly wrong at some point. They're a brutally dysfunctional couple. We get it!

    Once Sue Ellen left JR for good, she didn't have a relevant enough place on the show to justify keeping her. She's John Ross' mom, but is seeing her interacting with John Ross in some occasional scenes enough reason to keep her? I don't think so.

    I agreed with bringing Sue Ellen back for fake Dallas (or is that new Dallas?) because by then John Ross was an adult and they had a new, interesting dynamic between them. Unfortunately, most of Cynthia Cidre's vanity project fell far short of the mark of qualifying as a genuine Dallas continuation. She never understood what made Dallas work. She had the blueprint for success in her hands (the 14 seasons of episodes). But she couldn't be bothered to watch more than 25% of them. Imagine that. She has a job where she's being paid to watch Dallas so she understands the history of the show, and so she can learn what makes Dallas work, but still can't be bothered to do it.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
  11. Top Jimmy

    Top Jimmy Soap Chat Active Member

    Message Count:
    102
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Location:
    USA
    Ratings:
    +230
    Medals:
    3
    Member Since:
    2004
    I do agree Lucy was wasted when she came back, but I thought she was funny when she and JR would insult each other. It seemed Lucy's role was mainly as a friend and confidant of Cally, so I'm glad she at least got some airtime. Unfortunately, the writers did not know what to do with her and did not give her a plot of her own.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

    Message Count:
    1,408
    Trophy Points:
    690
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +1,595
    Heh heh, I saw this and immediately thought of the time Lucy got wasted at that party at Southfork which Peter attended and Lucy made a big scene late in the night when she'd had a lot to drink and said she'd figured out why Peter wasn't interested in her - it was because he was interested in Sue Ellen! Charlene was always very good at acting drunk or high.

    OK, you liked her humor. I just never thought comedy was her strong suit. Remember when she took Cally shopping and Cally came back with that horrible makeup and that ridiculous dress? It was slightly funny I guess but not exactly a highlight of the show.

    Charlene was quite good in crisis situations like when Mickey got paralyzed by hit and run driver because Sue Ellen was drunk, because Bobby and Ray had the brilliant idea of bailing him out of prison - with someone else's money of course, and because the hit and run driver thought JR was in the car. Then when Mickey died, again Charlene acted very well. Unfortunately, in the later seasons after Lucy's return, they didn't give her many good dramatic situations.

    The Casey Default (spellcheck changed his last name to the oddly well fitting Default - was the person who created spellcheck a Dallas fan?) storyline is the only one that even comes to mind that had a good dramatic role for Lucy during her second run on Dallas. They instead chose to use her for her somewhat limited comedic value.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Herofan

    Herofan Soap Chat Member

    Message Count:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Location:
    U.S.
    Ratings:
    +89
    I thought the police part was ridiculous too. A man ends up dead off a balcony during a shooting, and it’s like “no big deal.” It seemed that since Sue Ellen’s and JR’s stories contradicted each other, it confused the police, so they just had to drop it.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

    Message Count:
    1,408
    Trophy Points:
    690
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +1,595
    That was bad writing. It wasn't believable that the police wouldn't know what to do. If a man kicks your door down and enters your home, that's breaking and entering. If you pull out a gun and tell him to leave but he doesn't and instead physically attacks you, you have no choice but to defend yourself. Nicholas's death was his own fault. It was clearly a case of self defense.

    JR choosing not to press charges against Sue Ellen was hard to believe as well. She was also guilty of breaking and entering, trespassing, and attempted murder. Why would JR drop the charges and give her another chance to try to kill him? That was similar to the mistake Bobby made with Katherine. She tried to kill Bobby twice and when he found her (while she was guilty of jumping bail), he let her get away instead of calling the police.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Toni

    Toni Soap Chat Star

    Message Count:
    2,826
    Trophy Points:
    4,535
    Occupation:
    Aspiring writer and factual webmaster
    Location:
    Fletcher Sanitarium, Barcelona, Spain
    Ratings:
    +5,104
    Medals:
    5
    Member Since:
    September 12, 2001 (poster formerly known as Pam's Twin Sister)
    Ironicly, the Cider House would have loved it, and created a Latin cop to investigate the case. Nicholas's corpse would have been opened and a hair of April found in it...and so on.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  16. Toni

    Toni Soap Chat Star

    Message Count:
    2,826
    Trophy Points:
    4,535
    Occupation:
    Aspiring writer and factual webmaster
    Location:
    Fletcher Sanitarium, Barcelona, Spain
    Ratings:
    +5,104
    Medals:
    5
    Member Since:
    September 12, 2001 (poster formerly known as Pam's Twin Sister)
    That episode Carousel turned the Dream Season shark into a whale aquatic ballet! It's awful from beginning to end.

    The shooting farce, Sue Ellen's ennerved acting, the Larry & Patrick comedic routine, Fake Pam's pantomime, Lucy becoming the wisest at SF (lol), Clayton wanting to sell the refineries he just bought, do I have to go on?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Herofan

    Herofan Soap Chat Member

    Message Count:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Location:
    U.S.
    Ratings:
    +89
    I thought it was out of character for JR to suggest a hunting trip for him, Bobby, and the boys. J.R. actually acted like he enjoyed it. In prior seasons, he had to be dragged to something like that.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2

Share This Page