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Did Miss Ellie have a dark side?

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Jimmy Todd, Dec 7, 2019.

  1. Jimmy Todd

    Jimmy Todd Soap Chat Well-Known Member EXP: 10 Months

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    Was there ever a scene in the miniseries or first season in which Miss Ellie displayed a mean streak or an elitist attitude toward a poor person?
     
  2. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing World Cup of Soaps Moderator EXP: 20 Years

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    In Dallas: The Early Years she dumped her boyfriend Digger so she could pursue Jock for his money to save Southfork
     
  3. Jimmy Todd

    Jimmy Todd Soap Chat Well-Known Member EXP: 10 Months

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    That's right. That seems more desperation to save her family's land. How aware was Jock that it was more a business deal in her end?
     
  4. Laurie Marr

    Laurie Marr Soap Chat Active Member

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    She also withheld from JR the truth that Digger was his Daddy.
     
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  5. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 12 Years

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    I haven't seen that movie in a long time but as far as I recall, I don't remember they ever showed Miss Ellie being in love with Digger, just that Digger was in love with her. I think she just considered Digger a friend but didn't look at him as a man she could ever take seriously. He wasn't future husband material in her eyes. She wasn't in love with Jock when she married him, but unlike Digger, I think Jock turned her on. She also desperately wanted to save Southfork.

    I liked Miss Ellie; she was one of my favorite characters. The first time I ever saw a dark side in her wasn't until JR had just finished recuperating from being shot. Bobby made a deal with Jock to fill in for JR at Ewing Oil only until JR was able to go back to work, since it was a job Bobby didn't want. So, Jock was getting ready to reinstate JR and that's when Miss Ellie first showed a dark side (other than showing favoritism as a parent and saying Gary was her favorite).

    Jock told Ellie JR was ready to go back to work and Miss Ellie told Jock she wanted him to keep Bobby from moving away to California, as he had originally planned,before JR got shot. She told Jock she wanted him to keep Bobby at Southfork no matter what it took (apparently whether Bobby wanted to or not). Ellie was adamant about Jock keeping Bobby running Ewing Oil, because then he couldn't move out, as you'd expect a 30 year old man would want to do want to do so he and his wife could live in their own home, in the location of their choosing.

    The darkest side of Ellie emerged when she used emotional extortion on Jock, telling him that if he reinstated JR and it led to Bobby finally moving out: "I will never forgive you." She also told Jock to do whatever it took to keep Bobby from moving away and "at any cost." Basically she showed that keeping her 30 tear old son living with her at Southfork, despite the fact he'd rather do other things, and using emotional extortion on her husband to accomplish that, was something she had no ethical problem doing. Whatever must be done to keep Ellie happy was, in her mind, justified. The ends justified the means for her, just as long as the end result was keeping things exactly the way Ellie wanted them.

    It changed my perception of Miss Ellie considerably. Most parents would are happy if their adult children are doing what they want to do and are happy doing it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
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  6. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 12 Years

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    Heh, you wish!
     
  7. Via The Void

    Via The Void Soap Chat Well-Known Member EXP: 3 Years

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    I don't think she liked Pam to begin with in the original mini series.

    I seem to remember a scene between her & Bobby where Bobby said Pam was pretty & Miss Ellie went off on one. I think she said that Pam was Cliff Barnes sister & Digger Barnes daughter, she wasn't too pleased I seem to recall!

    I wouldn't say she was mean about it, more put out than anything else. :)
     
  8. Billy Wall

    Billy Wall Soap Chat Active Member EXP: 1 Year

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    People laugh, but Dallas was a soap opera and I’m willing to bet that Digger being JR’s dad was tossed around in production meetings. Lol
     
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  9. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 12 Years

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    I wouldn't be surprised. Realistically, Gary might have been a more likely candidate to be Diggers' son because Gary was born around the time of WWII and Jock was stationed in Europe. It could also account for why Gary never felt like he fit into the family.
     
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  10. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle EXP: 19 Years

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    Yeah, those bodies she was burying in the front garden while chatting with Dusty. That was just creepy.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Miss Texas 1967

    Miss Texas 1967 Soap Chat Well-Known Member EXP: 5 Years

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    I'll add to this that during the period with the voting shares and subsequent fight for Ewing Oil she couldn't have made her dislike of JR any clearer and while JR deserved to be told off for the way he treated people at times, it seemed like complete overkill to me at times. It was incredibly selfish of her to moan about Ewing Oil and everything it was doing to the family and how terrible it all was when the company and the behaviour of the men behind it was what had kept her in the lifestyle she'd grown up in, was continuing to allow her to draw a passive income from, and was what was important to both of her sons in a clear cut way, seeking Jock's respect. Miss Ellie after Jock's death became insufferable with the way she saw things related to Jock, the emotional reaction was grief, but certain actions came across as selfish and manipulative. Crying, throwing a fit about her sons doing exactly as their father intended and then threatening to sell Ewing Oil was all misdirected. She ended up leaving town, she should have just done that to begin with if it was that difficult to be around.

    As far as the original question goes, I can't think of clear examples other than Miss Ellie's caution about Pam in the minseries, but later on it was very clear that she wasn't all sweetness and light (nor was anyone else, it's not wrong).
     
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  12. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 12 Years

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    I hadn't thought of all that, but you're right. I don't think she ever considered that maybe JR grew up to be who he was because Gary was Ellie's favorite and Bobby was Jock's favorite. If parents don't love their children equally and unconditionally, it does immeasurable harm. I have to give the makers of the show credit for showing how the son who received less love, and didn't receive unconditional love, showed negative effects that lasted permanently. Their attention to those things, to make sure they showed that there were consequences of favoritism by parents, for example, was quite realistic. We saw how Ray had sell-esteem issues after growing up as being thought of as the town drunk by the rest of his small town. This type of detail was rare or non-existent in most TV shows. of the time.

    The time when I found Miss Ellie difficult to watch was in the second half of season 4 - around the time of the Takapa storyline. She was upset that Jock considered Ray his son, and added him to the trust fund, but she went way, way too far with it. There is actually a scene where Ellie says to Jock and JR at the same time: "You sicken me"! That's something only a woman can get away with on Tv and still be a beloved character. If a man looks at his wife and son and says "You sicken me", he's looked at as a monster by the audience. Can you imagine the hate e-mails a show would receive if a husband treated his wife and son that way and then his wife later talked about how fortunate she was to have married such a good man?
     
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  13. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle EXP: 19 Years

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    But that was really because of Jock's rejection and neglect of Gary.
     
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  14. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 12 Years

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    If Jock failed at being a good father to Gary when he was growing up, it's understandable Ellie would have been angry at Jock at that time. Years later, when Gary came to visit, Jock directly tried to get Gary to bring up whatever Gary may have wanted to talk about. It was the scene where Jock said let's bring everything out into the open, who did what to what to whom, who needs to be forgiven, who needs to forgive. He did whatever was possible to do at the time, and he was disappointed when Gary left.

    Then when Gary got remarried, Jock showed up for the wedding and asked if he was welcome to stay for the ceremony. He couldn't change the past, but he was doing all that was possible at the time, and then Ellie got upset despite it all.

    Ellie was saying things like "Your Ray Krebbs, who doesn't have a drop of Southworth blood in him is running the ranch, so now there is no reason for Gary to come back." She was acting like Ray had stolen Gary's place and Jock was guilty for allowing Ray to do it.
     
  15. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle EXP: 19 Years

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    Not everybody saw that as noble candor from Jock.
     
  16. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 12 Years

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    Elaborate. Why or why not do you see merit in Jock trying to bring about a discussion in which Gary had the opportunity to say to his family how he felt, who he thought had wronged him and in what ways, where Gary could take personal accountability for hi own actions, and bring about a situation where Gary and the rest of the family could forgive and be forgiven?
     
  17. Billy Wall

    Billy Wall Soap Chat Active Member EXP: 1 Year

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    Since we’re on the subject of Jock, my biggest gripe with him was in his will where he put in stipulations for Gary, but he didn’t when it came to Ray who was his son for just a short time.
     
  18. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 12 Years

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    Ray wasn't a compulsive gambler or an alcoholic. The stipulation for Gary was not punitive; it was intended to protect Gary. He had use of the interest alone for four years, and then he would have use of the entire sum - the same amount the rest received. The intent was to prevent the inheritance from enabling Gary's addictions. Jock was giving Gary four years to mature further so that hopefully when he gained access to the entire sum of money, he would use it in a way that wouldn't be self-destructive.
     
  19. Swami

    Swami Soap Chat Supreme

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    Ellie's dark side came to light when she got rid of Kent Jackson courtesy of the shotgun from the closet.

    Swami
     
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  20. Toni

    Toni Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 18 Years

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    Besides what @Santa Swami has just mentioned, Miss Ellie also hated poor Julie Grey for just entertaining Jock (I bet she celebrated it when she died!), didn´t visit Gary in the spin-off not even once, kept all the Teresas and Raouls hidden in the basement (and Carmen Ramos too!), didn´t let one single sack dress available at The Store and didn´t let allow her family celebrate Christmas or Thanksgiving. Isn´t that cruel!!

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    "She was certainly cruel! And she also
    broke all those dishes! How could she!"​
     

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