Both versions of the "Steven is gay" scene

Discussion in 'Dynasty' started by Snarky's Ghost, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

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    Need we say more?

     
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  2. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing World Cup of Soaps Moderator

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    It's strange watching these scenes back to back. When they originally aired I had no problem with Jack Coleman taking over the role of Steven but seeing this you realise just how much better Al Corley was suited to the part. He had more of an edge and a greater sense of danger. You could imagine Al Corley's Steven dropping the vase to make his point whereas Jack Coleman's version was more likely to hand it to Joseph for polishing.
     
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  3. Mel O'Drama

    Mel O'Drama Super Moderator Staff Member

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    At least Blake's pronunciation of "vase" is classier in the Coleman version. Every cloud has a silver lining.
     
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  4. GillesDenver

    GillesDenver Soap Chat Fan

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    In the first version, Steven looks at Krystle, not at Fallon, when her sister says "he's gay". That's because Linda Evans said that line when it was shot. But the producers did not like the result so they reshot the line with Pamela Sue Martin (the rest of the scene was not reshot, obviously).
     
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  5. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing World Cup of Soaps Moderator

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    That's an interesting observation. I wonder why he pronounced it the English way the second time around?
     
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  6. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Warrior

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    Because the show was riddled with insecurity at this time and was just much more affected by then. That or maybe Joan just passive aggressively corrected him.
     
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  7. tommie

    tommie Soap Chat Star

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    I dunno
    I'm disappointed they didn't re-record it with Emma Samms.
     
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  8. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

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    I, for one, had a problem with the recasting -- and the way the scene was re-shot -- immediately...

    Coleman aside, I could accept the second version's restaging as being a character's subjective memory of the event, almost like a dream. But the show's other burgeoning creative problems as Season 3 set sail prevented me from so excusing it. Just as it was hard to excuse the video of Blake threatening Logan Rhinewood with a blue wall behind him -- demonstrably not the way the scene originally happened. (Why couldn't they reframe the original footage for Cecil's video, or, barring that, reshoot it with a black oriental screen behind Blake -- which would have been closer to the original).

    And I'm just fine with Corley not dropping the vase -- if he had, my sympathy for him would have flown out the window.

    Correct. For the longest time, I'd wondered why Krystle didn't say "Steven is gay" and why Steven#1 looked back at her and not Fallon. But then I learned that they gave the line to PSM because everybody giggled when Linda said it (very easy to picture). But in a way, Fallon saying it makes more sense: Krystle actually acknowledging homosexuality in word just doesn't seem possible, an empty-armed madonna too chaste and reticent to quite go there.

    That said, I liked early Krystle wandering around the mansion in a series of ball gowns. Those little suits and infantilized outfits and jumpers she wore later were, mostly, dreadful.

    [​IMG]
    "I'm going out for the mail, bitches...!"
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
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  9. thomaswak

    thomaswak Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    I watched season 3 last week, and yes, Coleman's version of Steven is really inferior to Al's.
    I'm watching season 4 right now, Coleman is so stiff, and looks always ungrateful. Al's Steven was warmer, and brought more emotions on screen. Al's Steven had this kind of sadness in him, this melancholia that really strikes any time I see him. Coleman's Steven is... a bit robotic. And if remember well, it gets worst, in later seasons.

    About season 4, Alexis & Dex are really that kind of Jersey Shore odd couple. All they do is hump and punch each other. As Stan says in South Park :D :
    https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0a52c8a9-4ca2-4b85-b5fb-5b1ecffc47f9
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
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  10. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

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    I think the camera should be tilted diagonally in the Season 3 relived version of the scene. That would make it clearer that it's a memory which may or may not be accurate, and explain why Blake said "vaahz" the second time around.
     
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  11. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    It is kind of sad they re-shot that scene in such a bizarre way--and I mean bizarre as in with Coleman.
    That scene, while born out of Corley's disagreement with the network's/Spelling's straightening of Steven and his imminent departure, corrected the season-long mistake of Steven with Sammy Jo, and I would argue even covered his affair with Claudia, all as part of Steven wanting to please his father and live that life. Also, while DYNASTY often had pedantic episode titles, this episode's "The Two Princes" is particularly apt, with LB crying at the end of Steven's scene.

    I think Emma Samms was horrible on COLBYS because of the COLBYS team, but on DYNASTY she gave her own version of Fallon in seasons 8 and 9. But Coleman did not give his own version of Steven. Instead, his character was like a third son Blake had.

    DYNASTY was incredibly cavalier about recasts. True, the demand that Steven be cured of his homosexuality (completely, which we mercifully never saw materialize thanks to Corley refusing to play it) came from the network, and not the producers. But they, Esther Shapiro included, thought it was not a fight worth having and at the time they even tried to rationalize it to Corley by saying he would have more plots to play as a straight man. And when Corley refused, they started saying that he was fired "for badmouthing the show" (per their planted 1982 People article).
     
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  12. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

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    Which is why I always wanted Coleman to eventually be revealed to be Ben Reynolds after all. Seriously.
     
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  13. GillesDenver

    GillesDenver Soap Chat Fan

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    But he really did. He said in an radio interview something like "Dynasty is garbage". Then he was summoned up to Douglas Crammer's office and they allegedly had a big argument.
     
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  14. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    I think it does look and sound kinda nightmarish, as if not only Steven but all the Carringtons have been body-snatched.
     
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  15. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    The Cramer/Corley argument was discussed in a special about the show, either the TV Guide or E one.
    Yet the 1982 radio interview was in the context of what Corley said was the loss of the first season's verisimilitude, citing some soapy plots and Steven's straight conversion among them. Even Shapiro (who kept in touch with Corley and did the season 1 DVD commentary with him) eventually admitted that Corley was right about what they wanted to do to his character but she blamed it all on the network (a woman who was herself an ABC executive in the 70s, mind you).
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
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  16. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

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    Like the dream they apparently filmed in Season 3 where Alexis was The Angel of Death taking away Krystle's baby -- but the scene was cut.

    What a great DVD extra: Alexis' Angel of Death baby-snatch, along with Alexis' coronation as Moldavia's queen.
     
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  17. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    And George Peppard as Blake!
     
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  18. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    DYNASTY DVDs were not that rich on extras, regrettably.
     
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  19. Richard Channing

    Richard Channing Soap Chat Star

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    Oh how I would love to see that! I bet it's camp as Christmas.
     
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  20. GillesDenver

    GillesDenver Soap Chat Fan

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    Season 2, not 3. In the episode "The miscarriage". They just kept the part with Toscanni comforting Krystle.
    The dream was replaced by a scene with Alexis phoning to the hospital to have some news about Krystle's condition.

    In the same episode, they also reshot the scene at the pool with Claudia and Toscanni, for whatever reason. I guess the producers wanted Pamela Bellwood to wear a sexier swimsuit. Her bathroom was different in both versions (blue for the unseen version - but a promo picture was kept - and pink for the version we had).

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
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