Bobby and Pam's Marriage During The Contest

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Kenny Coyote, Aug 30, 2019.

  1. Laurie!

    Laurie! Soap Chat Member

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    Oh come on Kenny! Saying that he couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag is simply stating the obvious. If I wanted to make it political, I would have but instead I kept it tame. I can't help it if the iconic photo of Trump shining Larry's shoes comes to mind.

    As for me speaking for women in general...read my quote. I said "female viewers such as myself". Which infers women who think like me on the subject; not women in general.

    Chillax Kenny.
     
  2. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    Well, alright, Laurie. Anyway, he is 73 years old. Nobody expects a man that age to be able to whip anybody in a fight.

    Earlier you said:

    Regarding Pam battling JR, I'm glad they didn't take the story in that direction. Pam just had no qualifications or background that would lead anyone to believe she should be able to compete at the highest levels of the oil business. It's not a knock on Pam. If they'd taken anyone who had no qualifications or expertise and shown them capable of competing at that level of the oil industry, it would have made a mockery of any of the characters who they had portraying oilmen at the top of their business.

    Look at it like this: Dallas spent time and effort building up their characters of JR and Bobby and Jeremy Wendell to be credible as some of the best oilmen in Texas - men who were among the very best at what they did. If Pam can be competitive at their level of the industry without the years and years of preparation for it all of them had, well, then frankly, they must all suck at being oilmen!
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
  3. Barbara Fan

    Barbara Fan Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Bobby changed during the fight for EO and not for the better

    It was always alluded to in the past that he used the 3 Bs when working for EO but JR was always seen as the "bad guy" and Bobby was the "good guy" to be simplistic.
    During the fight Bobby got down and dirty and was every way as bit as bad as JR with his blackmailing and planting guns and showed he could be just as devious and dirty and Pam was not happy with how the fight had changed him and not for the better and I understand why after her mother died she had to give herslef some space and time to think

    @Laurie! - it was George Hicks x

    I think there is a difference bewteen males and females watching Dallas and the reasons why they liked it

    Most guys I know who watched it back i the day was for the EO / business side of things (and to see VP in a swimming costume!)

    I far preferred the interactions at SF - with family, roles and relationships to EO and business deals.

    Long before he was President, Trump reminded me of JR and I loved the shoe shining pitcture of larry and Donald
     
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  4. Lastkidpicked

    Lastkidpicked Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    Kenny, from reading your posts the last few days it seems you are doing a rewatch of that year in the series. I sure hope so! There is a lot to talk about there.

    In regards to this interesting discussion about Pam and Bobby's marriage during the battle for Ewing Oil, there is a great scene between Bobby and Sue Ellen, one of the rare scenes when they are truly friends.

    She Ellen is straightforward with Bobby, and tells him that while she never wants to see Bobby hurt, she will stand by J.R. It is nice to watch She Ellen at her most open and honest.

    Bobby's equally open and honest response:

    "I don't often feel jealous of my brother, but maybe today I do, just a little bit."
     
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  5. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    I am rewatching some of it! I'll tell you where I am in the season right now and it just happens to go perfectly with the quote you just mentioned. It explains what is behind it. Bobby and Pam are in their bedroom, talking about Miss Ellie just having announced she is going to go to court to break Jock's will.

    Bobby: You don't understand just what this competition between JR and me is all about.

    Pam: Yes I do, but how much power do you or JR have to have? As far as I'm concerned you don't have to be president of Ewing Oil. We have more money than we can ever spend! You could be president of any company!

    Bobby: That's not it. That's not it at all. Pam, You don't understand what drove Jock Ewing, and I don't think you really understand what drives me either.

    Bobby was right there for Pam whenever she was going after something in life that really meant a lot to her, and now that he's going after something that means a great deal to him, he's hoping she'll be as understanding and supportive of him as he'd always been of her.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
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  6. Barbara Fan

    Barbara Fan Super Moderator Staff Member

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    But within reason and the law, Bobby resorted to dirty "JR type" underhand methods and tactics in his bid to win the company involving Blackmail, setting someone up and using hookers.

    I think Pam said at the end of one epiosde Thats not the Bobby ewing I married and she was right.
     
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  7. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    When Pam changed, he didn't hold it against her; he was as supportive and understanding as could be. He didn't say "You're not the Pamela I married" when she changed. There's one more big difference though. When Bobby changed it was in his professional life. He didn't let it impact his personal life - the way he treated Pam and Christopher didn't change. When Pam changed, it was in a way that did impact the the way she treated Bobby.

    "Within reason and the law" didn't seem to matter to Pam when it was for the purpose of getting her a baby, did it?
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
  8. Billy Wall

    Billy Wall Soap Chat Active Member

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    I’ll just like to add, Bobby didn’t get down and dirty for the fight for Ewing Oil until JR went on TV and pretty much implied to ALL of Dallas that Bobby was weak.
     
  9. Laurie!

    Laurie! Soap Chat Member

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    Kenny, Kenny, Kenny...I do hope you explain yourself more clearly because I'm left to think you may be a bit sexist to single out Pam's inexperience.

    Bobby was a company pimp, then worked at Ewing Oil for a bit, left to do construction and left again to ranch. When you at add up his time in the business, he was still inexperienced; yet, you found him convincing.

    Cliff was a lawyer with political ambition, yet you had no trouble believing he could head up an oil company on a whim.

    Pam grew up around a wildcat oilman for a father. She was Bobby's wife as he was learning the ropes of the business. Pam had worked with Cliff at Barnes Wentworth, etc. She presumably had experience running an aerobics studio (as owner), advertising and sales at The Store. Combine that business experience with all of the oil terminology she'd acquire growing up, important connections as Bobby's wife and her wealth and I'd say she'd have been every bit as convincing as an oil company executive as Bobby, Cliff and dare I even say JR.
     
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  10. Billy Wall

    Billy Wall Soap Chat Active Member

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    Lol...I was actually going to bring up Cliff’s lack of oil experience. But wasn’t he a lawyer that went after oil companies? Which means he would have “some” idea on how they’re run.
     
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  11. Taylor Bennett Jr.

    Taylor Bennett Jr. Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    I was just watching an episode from his OLM days when JR was beginning to drill overseas - Cliff explains to Pam that beyond the cost of the leases, the drilling costs were astronomical.

    Fast forward a few years to the Gold Canyon days, and Cliff apparently completely forgot what he’d known before he got into the
    business and was shocked that he’d need more money than what it took to secure the lease.

    Maybe he really was brain damaged from
    the suicide attempt, as the doctor warned might happen.
     
  12. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    Pam grew up around a wildcatter who was a lousy businessman. Pam's job would not have been wildcatting anyway.

    Pam worked with Cliff in the capacity of loaning him money because she didn't want to see him go under and Cliff wasn't a good enough oilman to keep his business going without Pam's money to prop up his company. Cliff was a good lawyer but a mediocre oilman at best.

    Pam was handed an aerobics studio to run. How long did that last? Tell me of the immense carryover value between owning an aerobics business, or in working at a store that sells women's clothing in a low to mid-level capacity and running a huge oil company at the highest level. Tell us about the tremendous carryover value there, Laurie.

    Did Pam learn oil terminology growing up? She probably did on some level. So what? You could read a book on oil terminology.When you'd finished would you consider yourself ready to run a multi-billion dollar oil company? Well, maybe you would.

    While Bobby's wife, tell me about even one time Pam asked Bobby to teach her the business and/or get her some type of job at Ewing Oil. When was that, Laurie?

    There never was one time because Pam didn't even like the oil business. How could she hope to compete against the best of the best in an industry she didn't even like? To compete at the highest level of something, you don't just need to like it you have to have had a passion for it. Otherwise, the people who do have a passion for it will run roughshod over you because they're willing to spend every waking hour getting just as good at it as they can possibly get.

    Yet you've got the gall to call me sexist because I say Pam wouldn't have been even close to being able to compete with men who were among the best of the best at what they did and worked at the highest level of their industry.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
  13. Laurie!

    Laurie! Soap Chat Member

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    Kenny I asked you to explain yourself or I'd think you were sexist; I didn't call you sexist. However, after that very feeble attempt, I now consider you sexist.

    You're asking me to explain what they showed of Pam running an aerobics studio. They didn't have to show it for me to assume she knew how to manage a business from that experience. Nor did they seemingly need to show you Cliff learning the ropes, at Barnes Wentworth. You just assumed he knew how because he was a lawyer of all things, had a brief stint at the OLM and obviously because he was a man. Guess what Kenny? Cliff was also handed the title of CEO of Barnes Wentworth. He didn't work his way up.

    Bobby didn't work his way up at Ewing Oil either. He was handed an executive job after college football, partying as the company pimp and being the owner's son. That didn't prevent you from thinking Bobby was capable did it? Add up his tenure at Ewing Oil before the contest and he didn't have anymore experience than Pam would have gotten while working at Barnes Wentworth. Remember, he ran the ranch and a construction company for a long time.

    Pam was learning the business, not just writing cheques and yes, learning oil terminology growing up, running a studio, advertising, delegating, sales at The Store would indeed be valuable experience for any business, not just the oil business. She would have been just as convincing at Ewing Oil during the dream season as any of the other characters. We didn't need to see conversations about business between her and Bobby either for me to accept she would have picked up a lot.
     
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  14. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    Laurie, just go make me a sandwich.
     
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  15. Laurie!

    Laurie! Soap Chat Member

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    It's alright Kenny. The first step to recovery is acceptance.
     
  16. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    You think blackmailing Hicks and planting guns in Driscoll's briefcase make Bobby every bit as bad as JR?

    Regarding the guns, I think Bobby was just doing what the situation required of him. How would you have liked Bobby to respond to that situation?

    If Bobby does nothing in that situation, he's allowing his company to ship oil to Cuba. That's a serious enough felony to where the government, had it found out, would have taken Ewing Oil away from them. It wouldn't have just taken "JR's half of the company"; it would have seized the entire company. He can't let that happen. So what do you do in that situation? If Bobby told the government what was happening, about the oil shipment, he'd still be risking the entire company. He''d also be risking going to prison for what JR did. Why would he find that acceptable? Bobby gets a lot of flack for planting the guns, but I never hear anyone offering a better way for Bobby to handle that.

    As for blackmailing Hicks, I don't like what Bobby did but it's far from being as bad as JR. Remember, JR instigated that situation by bribing Hicks to vote his way. Had JR not done that, there wouldn't have been a problem. Once Bobby found out JR was bribing Hicks, I guess he could have offered to give Hicks an even bigger bribe, but that just perpetuates the problem because JR can then offer Hicks even more, and it just goes on. If Bobby just allows JR to bribe Hicks and doesn't respond, JR probably wins the contest.. How is that good for anyone except JR? I have to think that JR in sole control of Ewing Oil would have done far worse things than bribe Hicks to vote his way from time to time. So I guess you could say Bobby was being proactive. It wasn't ideal, but do you have an ideal solution? How would you have liked Bobby to handle that particular situation?
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
  17. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    Bobby gets a lot of criticism here for blackmailing Hicks and planting guns in Walt Driscoll's briefcase, but I've never seen anyone offer any ideas for how they would have preferred Bobby to have handled JR bribing Hicks, and JR using Driscoll to help him illegally ship oil to Cuba. Those things happened over 36 years ago on Dallas. That's a long time to think of better ways for Bobby to have handled those two particular situations. It's easy to criticize how Bobby handled those two matters but it's a lot harder to offer any substance for solutions as to how he could have handled those two situations better, isn't it?
     
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  18. Laurie!

    Laurie! Soap Chat Member

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    If you have to win by cheating, you're a loser.

    Ultimately, Bobby won by his honest deal with the Canadian fields and that's how those two situations were solved. Ironically, Pam helped him get that honest deal so I guess her support helped Bobby win.;)
     
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  19. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    Ultimately it was a combination of things, including Pam and Katherine voting to let Bobby use the drill, Bobby's Canadian oil deal coming through on time, and Bobby's blackmailing of Hicks, that won him the contest.

    Suppose Bobby hadn't blackmailed Hicks. Then Hicks doesn't change his vote and JR keeps his variance. JR would have been able to use his oil pumping variance to supply all his gas stations and add who knows how many more new stations. Considering the extra money JR would have been able to make, we don't know if Bobby's Canadian deal would have been enough to win him the contest.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  20. Jon Ewing Jr.

    Jon Ewing Jr. Soap Chat Member

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    I always liked that guy Daggat (or was it Daggart) the pimp
     

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