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Bobby Allowing Pam To Take Christopher From Him

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Kenny Coyote, Dec 3, 2019 at 11:30 AM.

  1. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    I just watched "Requiem" from season 6 and at the end of the episode, Pam says to Bobby: "I have to get away from here. I can't live here anymore" The ensuing conversation goes like this:

    Bobby: You mean, you want to leave Southfork?

    Pam: I have to.

    Bobby: Pamela, that's a pretty big step!

    Pam: I spent the afternoon trying to work it out but I just can't live here. I have to leave.

    Bobby: (smiles) Alright, we'll find another place to live.

    Pam: You don't understand; I want to leave alone.

    Bobby: Without me, without Christopher?

    Pam: With Christopher, but without you. Bobby, I need time to think, away from you, away from Southfork, away from the Ewings. And away from everything that the Ewings stand for.

    *********************End of episode**************

    Ok, if I'm Bobby, right away I'm thinking: Christopher is a Ewing. Pam wants to take him away from everything my family stands for. So he can grow up learning everything the Barnes family stands for? So they can teach him to hate the Ewings and maybe change his last name to Barnes, or better yet, to Wentworth, in honor of the woman who abandoned Pam as an infant, left her in Digger's care, never even called or wrote to see how she was doing?

    Pam went looking for her, found her, and when she did, Rebecca looked her in the eye and said she wasn't Pam's mother - that Pam was mistaken. The same woman who just died because she was on her way to make my family's company "bleed." The same woman whose death Pam blames me for because clearly, in Pam's mind, that's where the blame belongs - not on Rebecca's decision to buy that plane (God forbid she'd travel with the common folk), to get on that plane to try to hurt my family, and then die because of pilot error, pure and simple.

    Pam wouldn't even have Christopher if it wasn't for me and now she wants to take him away from me, his uncle and aunt, his cousin, and his grandmother so he can grow up around Cliff? Let's see, Christopher loses me, Uncle JR, Aunt Sue Ellen, Cousin Lucy, Uncle Ray, Aunt Donna and his grandmother, but gains the opportunity to grow up around that termite, Cliff. He tried to commit suicide just last year, took 50 tranquilizers. That was just a few months after I had to save Pam from trying to throw herself off the roof of a 50 foot high building, and I'm supposed to trust them to keep my son safe?

    (Takes maybe half a second to think it over)

    Bobby: Pam you're free to leave if you want to; I'm not going to try to convince you to stay if you don't appreciate the life marrying me has given you, but do you think I'd let you take Christopher away from me, his grandmother and all the rest of his family here, so a man who hates me and everything about my family can help you raise him? No, Pam.

    Pam: You can't be serious?

    Bobby: Pam, look at me right now and tell me what is it that you see in my eyes that makes you think even for a second that I'd let you take my son away from me?
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 11:32 AM
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  2. Bill Dilks

    Bill Dilks Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    ...right out of CASINO. :ex:
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 2:17 PM
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  3. Chris2

    Chris2 Soap Chat Active Member

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    Yep - I thought Bobby was way too passive here. “I can’t stop you from leaving, but you’re not taking our son, who I bought with my own money, out of his home without a court order.”

    But Bobby always did let Pam call all the shots. She decided when they were going to be together, and she decided when they were going to be apart. She decided when she would have love interests on the side, and she decided what Bobby’s role in Ewing Oil should be.
     
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  4. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I think Bobby allowing Pam to take Christopher when they split shows that he is not selfish like JR who had no problem taking John Ross from Sue Ellen.

    Bobby wants what is best for his son and I think he believed that Christopher needed his mother more at that age than he needed his father. I also think that Bobby knew how badly Pam felt without Christopher and he loved Pam so he didn't want to take their son away from her and risk her falling back into mental illness.

    So Bobby allowing Pam to take Chris is not showing that he is weak. It is showing that he is a good guy who wants what is best for his son and his wife.
     
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  5. Snarky's Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come

    Snarky's Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come Soap Chat Oracle

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    I have mixed feelings about this --- which is probably healthy (although I'm probably biased).

    On one hand, there are and always have been, conservative caucasian American hetero-normative males who view Jock and JR as sacrosanct characters whose actions are benign and god-like, and their detractors horrible monsters. It's both fascinating and uninteresting simultaneously. And they'll decry Bobby's shameful atrocities against his big brother, but will side with Bobby (or Ray) if a woman doesn't get in line with the program without complaint.

    I don't even know how to address those perspectives except to read them and shake my head.

    That said, Pam -- like her sister, Katherine, and mother, Rebecca --- was also "under-written" to a degree. She had to sometimes show excessive concern for her rascal of a brother, Cliff, when he was down so the Romeo & Juliet dynamic of DALLAS' original premise would continue onward. That did sometimes result in Pam seemingly committing rather inconsistent acts and having unpredictable responses to the drama swirling around her. She needed to do what the writers needed her to do to keep the conflict going, so we're told to accept that she's never completely gotten over the anti-Ewing stories she grew up with, smashing windows out at the Ewing building when she was a teenager.

    Do I think Pam was justified in leaving Southfork and taking the baby that Bobby illegally obtained just a year earlier because her mother died in a plane crash during the battle over Jock's will? Well, no, I don't think she should have. And maybe I would have an easier time accepting her railing about the Ewing values negatively affecting her child if David Jacobs' initial concept of them -- a bunch of lousy bastards, including Miss "Fair? I don't care if it's fair!" Ellie --- had been maintained. But in classic Old TV fashion, everybody in the family quickly became nice and conscientious and merely dithered over JR's unilateral villainy and whether they should throw him off the ranch this time around as the result of his latest moral transgression.

    Pam viewed JR the same way the rest of the Ewing family did. So it didn't always make any sense.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 10:09 PM
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  6. Walking in a Winter Guzzlerland

    Walking in a Winter Guzzlerland Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    “If you try to take Christopher with you I’ll take you apart!”
     
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  7. Piggy It's Kermit Outside

    Piggy It's Kermit Outside Soap Chat Star

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    upload_2019-12-3_23-41-36.jpeg
    Bobby: Don´t call me Shirley!
     
  8. James from London

    James from London Soap Chat Mega Star

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    If you're Bobby, you're thinking that. But if I'm Bobby (which I'm not, so I can't say for sure) I'm probably not thinking that. And evidently, Bobby himself wasn't thinking that either. This, I think, comes closest to explaining Pam's and Bobby's actions in this situation, regardless of what anyone was thinking:

     
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  9. Blizzard Channing

    Blizzard Channing Soap Chat Star

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    Bobby was far too compassionate to take Pam's child from her right after she loses her mother. And that's what we loved about him. The words being put in Bobby's mouth above sound a lot more like JR than Bobby.
     
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  10. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    Of course. That is the purpose of the thread. Anyone who is interested can explain: "What would you have done if you were in Bobby's situation and why"? It's interesting to see how various forum members would react to that scenario. It's fun.

    If I'm Bobby in that scenario, my decision is based on keeping my son safe, healthy, and in the most stable environment possible. As a loving, responsible parent, what else could my top priority possibly be?

    If I'm Bobby in that scenario, do I allow my son to be taken away from the parent who is the only consistently stable presence in his life, which I am, and allow him to be put solely in the hands of a wife who I love dearly but just last year tried to throw herself off the top off of a 50 foot building? No! She's a woman who had displayed signs of mental illness just a year ago, necessitating inpatient treatment, and who now could be very well triggered into a relapse of that condition because of extreme stress - her mother has just died!

    If I'm Bobby in that situation I seriously have to consider the possibility that Pam's mother's unexpected death was more stress than Pam could handle. Honestly, Pam is acting irrationally. She's blaming me and the rest of my family for her mother's death! Rebecca got on that plane through her own free will. It was Rebecca's own vengeful nature that made her decide to get on that plane to go on a mission to, as she put it, make my family's company "bleed." That's the type of hateful pursuit Rebecca chose to involve herself in. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. Yet Pam is making me and my family out to be the bad guys?

    I didn't tell her mother to get on that plane. I didn't even want Rebecca on that plane! She got on that plane for her own reasons I've just explained. That Pam can't realize that's the truth tells me she's not rational, at least not right now. She really doesn't have the capability to understand Rebecca's motives for getting in that plane, or she's in complete denial over the kind of woman her mother was.

    Motives for getting on the plane aside, the cause of Rebecca's death was pilot error. It's as simple as that. One plane collided with another. That Pam cannot understand that, and that she's blaming me and my family for her mother's death shows me that Pam is not thinking rationally and may be at risk for a complete mental breakdown, like the one she suffered just last year.

    Do I depend on my wife's brother to ensure my son's well being if anything goes wrong? He's a man who hates my family and just last year tried to kill himself by taking about 50 tranquilizers at once! Am I going to trust that man to ensure the health and safety of my son? Not a chance.

    There is no other responsible decision for me to make but to keep my son right where he is - with me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019 at 10:14 AM
  11. Piggy It's Kermit Outside

    Piggy It's Kermit Outside Soap Chat Star

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    What they really thought in that scene:

    Pam: You don't understand; I want to leave alone (I´m sick and tired of not sleeping because of that ugly baby...).

    Bobby: Without me, without Christopher? (Please say that you´re gonna take the ugly baby far away from here...)

    Pam: (I´m afraid I can´t leave the ugly baby here, that would make me worse than Mama, may rest in Hell) With Christopher, but without you. Bobby, I need time to think, away from you, away from Southfork, away from the Ewings (and away from that Shepard b*tch who is always drunk!). And away from everything that the Ewings stand for.
    (Kathy darling is eavesdropping everything with a big smile in her face and thinking: "Yes, go away from here, sister dear, take Ugly Baby with you, and let the Bobster be for me!)"

    upload_2019-12-4_14-0-57.png
     
  12. Jon Ewing Jr.

    Jon Ewing Jr. Soap Chat Active Member

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    Bob should have done what Michael Corleane did in the Godfather part 2 and sent Pam away without Christopher and not let her around.....that would have taught her.
     
  13. Snarky's Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come

    Snarky's Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come Soap Chat Oracle

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    You've got a point. VP did call adorable Christopher "my ugly baby" --- that should be used against her in the custody hearing.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. James from London

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    If I'd lived through everything Bobby had up until this point without going completely mental, and that's a big if, my reaction to Pam's announcement would probably have been a mixture of love, guilt, resentment and a tendency towards passive-aggressive behaviour. So, like Bobby, I'd have probably ended up moping in her dust before heading inside to the bar. (But most likely I'd have done a Gary and got drunk and skedaddled years before all this happened.)
     
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  15. The Holiday Whore

    The Holiday Whore Soap Chat Warrior

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    Some really frightening views in this thread.
     
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  16. Laurie!

    Laurie! Soap Chat Member

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    If I were Bobby, I'd have grown the f$@k up, stopped worrying about my dead Daddy's ridiculous will and given my full attention to my wife and child's needs for once. But hey, that show would have been boring.
     
  17. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    How do you figure Bobby was not "grown up" and Pam was? Pam lost her mind when she found out that they would need to wait to adopt to have children, and like a child she refused to wait a couple years to adopt. I have had two excellent, very close friends who were both adopted and they were both incredibly grateful for the people who adopted them. They were also extremely grateful to their birth mothers for giving them up for adoption instead of having abortions! That's why almost all people who were adopted are pro-life, and conservative politically in general. They know they are alive because their birth mother didn't choose to have a abortion.

    Still, Bobby was willing to wait to adopt, but Pam was too immature; she wanted what she wanted and she wanted it right now! But you think Bobby as the oe who needed to "grow up"? It's all right for everyone else to have to wait to adopt, but not for Pam. Did she think she was somehow better than all the people who are told they have to wait, and do wait? Or did she just have no self-discipline to wait to adopt? I think it was some of both.

    Then Bobby bought her a very nice exercise studio because Pam wanted to work at place where she could bring her baby. Whatever she wanted, Bobby provided. Then a few months later, she loses interest in the whole thing and quits. How grown-up of her.

    I see a pattern of a complete lack of maturity in the above examples, and not on Bobby's part. Bobby was a bright guy; he could clearly see that immaturity in Pam, but he realized that's just how she was, and he was willing to put up with that exasperating behavior from her.

    Simple immaturity is one thing, but trying to off yourself because you don't want to wait with the rest of the people who are waiting for adoptions? What if Bobby hadn't shown up with such perfect timing, and in heroic fashion saved her, just as she was about to throw herself of the roof of a building to her death? This necessitated her being sent to mental institution where she wouldn't be able to hurt herself. Bobby was with her every step of the way, and visited her regularly, but you don't think he gave "full attention" to her?

    Bobby was patient, understanding, and even heroic. A lesser man might have at that point said: "This is more than I can handle. I can't spend my life saving you from yourself, and buying babies off the street whenever you decide you want another one - just because you don't have any self-control or self-discipline to wait to adopt like everybody else does. I do everything for you any man possibly could and it's never enough for you"! Not Bobby, he loved her, and if there was something Pam wanted to make her life feel fulfilled, he provided it for her, no matter how illegal or dangerous. After all that, even saving her from throwing herself off a 50 foot high building, he never complained once. He never pulled that Donna style crap: "Where's the woman I married? You aren't the Pamela I married"! That's because Bobby took his wedding vows of "for better or worse, in good times and in bad" seriously. Apparently Pam didn't take her vows with the same level of seriousness and commitment.

    Then finally Bobby found something that meant a lot to him - something he needed so that he could feel like good about himself- not unlike the way Pam needed a baby to feel like a successful woman, Bobby needed to gain controlling interest in Ewing Oil to feel like a successful man. I think if he had tried his best and lost he could have lived with that, but a man like Bobby couldn't have lived with just quitting - that was Gary's style - not Bobby's style.

    Giving 100% effort to try to win controlling shares of Ewing Oil was what Jock would have expected of him and was something he needed to do to feel good about himself. Despite that, your reaction is he should forget about it, to just say "I quit" so he could just use all his time to serve Pam's every need??? I don't see how that would lead to some long term resentment over the coming years, being such an unreasonable request. "Just quit going after the thing that will fulfill your career." What could possibly go wrong if he'd done that? What's the harm in her having the gall, after everything he'd done for her over the last few years, to say: Either you quit going after your dream or I'll leave you! No, I don't see that causing serious longer resentment towards her! How could that possibly cause irreparable harm to their marriage?



    .
     
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  18. Snarky's Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come

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    ... but... but.... she's a woman!
     

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