Blake, and Ted's death

[ronald mascot]

See, I just didn't feel like he was ever humanized in those stories. Especially after he raped Kirby, and then the long drawn out feelings about it- I never really bought any of that. I thought he more humanized when he getting drunk after being blackmailed, that felt real, I did believe it then and I even felt sorry for him, in a way- I never felt sorry for him about Kirby because he's a rapist.

I do love this show, though. I love how they do a sort of "trick" with the plots. Someone will do something terrible, they will completely stop talking about it for months and then all of a sudden, they pick it up again. They did it with Alexis and gunshot which made Krystle lose the baby and they did with Adam and the painting. All of a sudden, Krystle realizes it was Alexis who shot the gun, Jeff all of a sudden realizes it was the paint in his office that made him crazy. All that is terrific writing. I don't remember them doing that on Dallas- they would do it on Knots Landing though- just when the whole Val's babies died down, suddenly Karen decides that maybe they are still alive. It just makes for exciting seasons.

[witchboy]

I don't really find Adam all that sympathetic with Kirby either. The whole relationship is pretty screwy, what with Kirby wanting to be with Adam in the end after he raped her. Of course, it worked for Blake and Krystle.
I did think we saw some real vulnderability with him and Dana though. His grief and anger over learning about her aborting his baby years ago, her infertility, the loss of his son with the surrogate were all great development for Adam.
I love the drunk/blackmail stories too.

[gonebananas]

Well, Kirby wasn't exactly all that mentally stable of a person, was she? She might have inherited certain traits from both parents. Her mother and father both were 'off' to a certain degree; it just didn't hit her as hard as it hit Sean.

And now that I think about it, there was something slightly stalker-ish about Dana tracking down Adam after being separated from him for so long.

Adam and SammyJo? Uh, that's frightening! Especially if they had a baby together. The baby and Danny would be both siblings and cousins; and that is keeping it in the family WAY too much! Kinda reminds me of the ancient Pharoahs of Egypt, who were SO obsessed with keeping the throne in the family, they had half-siblings, full siblings, and cousins marrying each other; only rarely bringing in new blood.

Most of them were bugged out in a BIG way, whether it was through physical deformities, or mental ones.

SammyJo was a crap mother anyway. She gave Danny to Krystle and Blake without so much as shedding a tear; then tried to kidnap the poor little thing.

I had a feeling that when Adam tracked her down and pretended to seduce her, that he had an ulterior motive. The entire time she was trying to get his motor going, he had his eyes on Danny, who was blissfully asleep in his portacrib.

I cracked up when Adam used his own tie to bind her hands and then shoved a hanky in her mouth; then packed up the baby and took him back to Denver.

It served her right; although I think she should have been arrested for what she did.

[witchboy]

Sammy Jo was an awful mother, at least until they tried to reform her. ITA she should've been arrested for kidnapping Danny. I think of Claudia as Danny's real mother.
Dana was a little stalkerish in tracking down Adam. Still, she was downright stable compared to Kirby and Claudia, and Adam himself for that matter.

[gonebananas]

Well yeah, there is that.

But why in god's name did they have to start that surrogate crap? It was ripped directly from the headlines with that case concerning MaryBeth Whitehead and Baby M. The only difference was, the surrogate mom got the baby instead of the biological dad.

And as sneaky as Adam was, he couldn't dig up dirt on Karen Atkinson's ex-husband to prove that he was an unfit father to his own children? Hire a detective to keep an eye on the baby from a distance, whilst digging up dirt on Karen?

This is a man who was proven to be a vicious S.O.B. in certain dealings; where was that viciousness when it was needed?

I can understand not wanting to hurt the children involved, but there was no way that Adam couldn't have made arrangements for them to be taken care of if had simply thought about it.

Then what happens? Baby Adam disappears, just like his father did, has his name changed, and is raised to be ignorant of his other family.

Talk about coming full circle.

[witchboy]

I thought it was strange that Adam didn't even get joint custody or visitation. It was a pretty extreme ruling.
It was very topical, I was in high school at the time and did a huge report on surrogate motherhood which was big news at the time, and a fairly new social issue.
Adam was uncharacteristicly toothless in that.
I also thought it odd that Alexis and the Carringtons didn't seem to give a damn about the baby. Was the baby named Adam? I didn't remember him getting a name, but I thought Michael would've been an interesting name for him given that was the name Adam grew up with.
It did come full circle, with Adam's son essentially being stolen from him. I'd love to have the son return if Dynasty makes a come back, that kid would have all kinds of issues. Even better if Dana is Adam's wife instead of Kirby

[gonebananas]

The whole surrogacy plotline was entirely pointless.

The baby's fate wasn't really important to the writer's, they wanted Adam to stay a jerk, so they made sure that the baby went to his mother, with Adam being completely cut out, and acting out of character.

EVERYONE was acting out of character....well, except for Alexis. She at least tried bribery to get what she wanted. Too obvious for a woman that is well known for being sneaky, but then that's lousy writing for you.

I would have arranged for Karen to get a job out of state, with excellent pay and benefits, but wouldn't be allowed to take the baby with her without Adam's permission. Since this is Adam we are talking about, and he'd never give that permission, she'd either do without the job, or give up the baby.

She was mercenary enough to rent out her womb for the money, she could easily have given up custody of the baby for a well paying job and taken her daughters with her.

Jesse would have been chucked into prison for not paying the alimony and child support, and I would have gotten rid of Dana and set Adam up with someone that was capable of loving him, whilst also being capable of kicking him in the proverbial behind when he needed it.

Sadly though, we got what we got in that season.

[ronald mascot]

I thought it was the wrong character to give that story to- they obviously wanted to do a surrogate story- like someone said, it taken from the headlines of the day- and they just tried to make it fit onto Adam. It's kinda funny how Alexis will talk to these people- like Dana and Jackie- with "Oh, you can tell me....." and then she doesn't even keep it a secret for any period, she just immediately starts blabbing it everywhere.

[witchboy]

Not sure who else the surrogate story would've fit better than Adam and Dana. Every other couple on the show either already had kids or wasn't in a position to have a baby at that time, relationship status, etc.

[Ked]

Not sure who else the surrogate story would've fit better than Adam and Dana. Every other couple on the show either already had kids or wasn't in a position to have a baby at that time, relationship status, etc.

That's a good point. Although I still recall SnarkyEmperor's old idea of having Kirby with Adam's 3-year-old child turning up during that time. That probably would have more potential for excitement, plus it would have been interesting for Dana to meet the "girl with long dark hair" who once held Adam's heart in thrall. (I still remember that one scene where Adam talked about Kirby to Dana; the way how he spoke and talked about her hair, her eyes, indicated that he was still a little bit in love with her, and Dana looked utterly horrified because she realized that.)

[gonebananas]

Well, it could have been any old flame of Adam's come along with a child in tow; not just Kirby.

I never liked her as a character. I would have introduced a totally new one that he had a past relationship with, that had a child and didn't tell him about it. Whether it was due to wanting to keep said child to herself, or feeling that he wasn't ready to be a father, or whatever PLAUSIBLE reason to keep Adam and the child separated.

The age of said child however, would be up in the air. Either a child or a pre-adolescent would be fine. Adam was supposedly in his late twenties when he showed up, so a child anywhere from the age of four to maybe ten years would be logical. Especially if he was promiscuous in his late teens, while he was in college.

Here is a completely rhetorical question for the rest of the group: How is it that we can write better than the TV writers? Especially considering that we don't get paid for anything that we do when it comes to fanfics?

With all of the money that they get paid and they come up with dreck? Illogical, highly implausible and improbable dreck at that?

Makes a girl want to kick one of the dimwits in the backside (but that would cause too much brain damage.)

[Ked]

Well, it could have been any old flame of Adam's come along with a child in tow; not just Kirby.

I never liked her as a character. I would have introduced a totally new one that he had a past relationship with, that had a child and didn't tell him about it. Whether it was due to wanting to keep said child to herself, or feeling that he wasn't ready to be a father, or whatever PLAUSIBLE reason to keep Adam and the child separated.

The age of said child however, would be up in the air. Either a child or a pre-adolescent would be fine. Adam was supposedly in his late twenties when he showed up, so a child anywhere from the age of four to maybe ten years would be logical. Especially if he was promiscuous in his late teens, while he was in college.

I suppose so, but I'd still have Kirby, partly because I'm sick of so many new characters always coming in, but also because I still want to see Adam reacting to the real reason why she left him: she tried to kill Alexis, but when she couldn't, Alexis blackmailed her into leaving - otherwise she'd cut Adam out of her will. Imagine the venom that would spew forth from Adam if he found out...

Here is a completely rhetorical question for the rest of the group: How is it that we can write better than the TV writers? Especially considering that we don't get paid for anything that we do when it comes to fanfics?

With all of the money that they get paid and they come up with dreck? Illogical, highly implausible and improbable dreck at that?

Makes a girl want to kick one of the dimwits in the backside (but that would cause too much brain damage.)

I think that's because we know how the show ran. And by that, I mean we know the entire storyline from begining to end, we know what worked and what didn't, whereas the original writers, they had no idea what was going to happen or what was going to work and what wasn't. I mean, its like writing fanfiction as opposed to writing your own novel. Fanfiction, you're delving into an already established world, whereas with a novel, you have to create your own, which is much harder.

That's my explanation for it.

[gonebananas]

Well, okay....that makes a lot of sense.

[Ked]

Well, okay....that makes a lot of sense.

Thanks, I'm glad it did.

[witchboy]

I suppose so, but I'd still have Kirby, partly because I'm sick of so many new characters always coming in, but also because I still want to see Adam reacting to the real reason why she left him: she tried to kill Alexis, but when she couldn't, Alexis blackmailed her into leaving - otherwise she'd cut Adam out of her will. Imagine the venom that would spew forth from Adam if he found out...



I think that's because we know how the show ran. And by that, I mean we know the entire storyline from begining to end, we know what worked and what didn't, whereas the original writers, they had no idea what was going to happen or what was going to work and what wasn't. I mean, its like writing fanfiction as opposed to writing your own novel. Fanfiction, you're delving into an already established world, whereas with a novel, you have to create your own, which is much harder.

That's my explanation for it.

While that can be true, another aspect is that for us this is all a labor of love. We talk and speculate and even create our own stories because we love the show and the characters. So many of the writers probably were just there for the paycheck while they worked on the screenplay they really wanted to do on the side. It's a difference between the passion of a fan and the work of an indifferent professional, sometimes. I'm not saying all the writers felt that way, but I think in many tv shows that's the case. I believe the Shapiros really cared about what they were doing, but were hamstringed by Spelling and the network.
While I think there was possibility in bringing in a new woman from Adam's past, they had just done that with Dana. I think it would've been repetative for yet another woman from Adam's past to resurface so soon. I think there was some interesting and twisted history between Adam and Dana, how she was hopelessly in love with him, how he had sex with her while so drunk he blacked it out. I don't remember all the details, and it's been awhile since I've seen the eps that discuss the details, I think there's a subtext of consent issues there. Did a drunk Adam take advantage of an insecure girl with a crush? For that matter, did Dana take advantage of Adam so drunk he couldn't really make informed consent. If the genders were switched and a guy had unsafe sex with a girl that drunk, it would look a lot like rape. And while Adam was furious and hurt by learning about the abortion, what would've happened if she had told him the truth at the time. I doubt that would've worked out well, Adam may have even married her, but I think with him that self destructive he'd have been dangerous for her to be near. And for all that he was hurt by the loss of the child he never knew about, that resulted in Dana being unable to ever have a child. They unintentionally hurt each other so deeply but almost unavoidably, the seeds of the destruction of their marriage were already planted far in their youth, the scope of that is almost Shakespearian.

[Ked]

While that can be true, another aspect is that for us this is all a labor of love. We talk and speculate and even create our own stories because we love the show and the characters. So many of the writers probably were just there for the paycheck while they worked on the screenplay they really wanted to do on the side. It's a difference between the passion of a fan and the work of an indifferent professional, sometimes. I'm not saying all the writers felt that way, but I think in many tv shows that's the case. I believe the Shapiros really cared about what they were doing, but were hamstringed by Spelling and the network.

That is also very true and makes a lot of sense. Heh, makes me think of what I heard about MAD MEN, how the producers wanted the creator of the show to make his episodes shorter for commericals, and wanted him to get rid of 2 or 3 of his characters. But he said, "No. I make a good show because you give me creative freedom, and if you take that away, I won't make a good show." "Well fine then, maybe we don't need your show!" "Fine." So off goes MAD MEN for awhile, but then the producers come to their senses and bring it back without making any changes. Sad that wasn't the case for DYNASTY. Oh well.

While I think there was possibility in bringing in a new woman from Adam's past, they had just done that with Dana. I think it would've been repetative for yet another woman from Adam's past to resurface so soon. I think there was some interesting and twisted history between Adam and Dana, how she was hopelessly in love with him, how he had sex with her while so drunk he blacked it out. I don't remember all the details, and it's been awhile since I've seen the eps that discuss the details, I think there's a subtext of consent issues there. Did a drunk Adam take advantage of an insecure girl with a crush? For that matter, did Dana take advantage of Adam so drunk he couldn't really make informed consent. If the genders were switched and a guy had unsafe sex with a girl that drunk, it would look a lot like rape. And while Adam was furious and hurt by learning about the abortion, what would've happened if she had told him the truth at the time. I doubt that would've worked out well, Adam may have even married her, but I think with him that self destructive he'd have been dangerous for her to be near. And for all that he was hurt by the loss of the child he never knew about, that resulted in Dana being unable to ever have a child. They unintentionally hurt each other so deeply but almost unavoidably, the seeds of the destruction of their marriage were already planted far in their youth, the scope of that is almost Shakespearian.

Wow, that's actually a good observation. Though it also shows how doomed Adam's marriage was... I almost feel sorry for him, it always seems like his relationships end in disaster. Of course, I say "almost" because he was always doing such terrible things. Like Gordon Thomson himself said, "He really was a son of a b*tch."

[gonebananas]

They were both underaged at the time, weren't they? He might have taken advantage of her while drunk, but she may have done the same thing; so both were equally guilty. The idea of Dana getting pregnant from that one night stand wouldn't have entered either of their minds, as is par for the course when it comes to teenagers.

I kind of figured that she had been hiding a deep, dark secret when Adam started pursuing her, and I was right.

[ronald mascot]

I never felt he and Dana had any chemistry together- In fact, Adam slept with just about everyone and I don't think he had any personal chemistry with any of them. Maybe that was because they were all pretty goody-goody. If he had been paired up with someone as evil as he was, they probably would have sizzled- because he was attractive. Maybe that is why it was interesting when he tied Sammy Jo up in the bed, at the time, she was about as loony as he was.

[SnarkyOracle!]

I never felt he and Dana had any chemistry together- In fact, Adam slept with just about everyone and I don't think he had any personal chemistry with any of them. Maybe that was because they were all pretty goody-goody. If he had been paired up with someone as evil as he was, they probably would have sizzled- because he was attractive. Maybe that is why it was interesting when he tied Sammy Jo up in the bed, at the time, she was about as loony as he was.

I think his relationship with Dana was somehow the more believable, due to the actress and what ever "chemistry" the two had.

But I totally agree he and Sammy Jo should have been paired up, like a hetero Leopold and Loeb: two dreadful people who were even worse together.

Another missed opportunity.

[witchboy]

Lovely pictures, but is it just me, or does it look like Steven is checking Adam out? You know he's not jealous of anybody with Sammy Jo, and Adam does have a habit of getting his siblings all hot and bothered.