Was there still a Barnes/Ewing Feud?

[Beware of Bobby's shower]

Hi, everyone. I've read your posts before, but this is my first time joining the fun with a post of my own.

It seems like, from what I've read, the Barnes/Ewing feud isn't a big part of the new TNT series. But, from what I remember, didn't the feud pretty much die out by the time Dallas ended? Bobby married Cliff's sister, drilled on Ewing 23 even though Cliff got profits from it, invited Cliff to be part of Ewing Oil, and was grateful when Cliff didn't rule against him during the Ewing/Westar tanker collision. Miss Ellie accepted Cliff as the series went on--she even suggested to Bobby making Cliff a partner in Ewing Oil. Jock and Digger, the ones who started the feud, both passed away, with Jock appreciating that Digger cleared him of Hutch McKinney's murder. And J.R., even though he'd never consider Cliff a friend, willingly sold him his half of Ewing Oil at the end, something I doubt he could do with his Daddy's company if he hated the Barnes family. Besides, I thought the McKays were brought in to be the new family that battled the Ewings, since the Barnes/Ewing feud was dying out in the later years.

I'll admit, it's been awhile since I've watched the whole show, so maybe there was something that reignited the feud that I'm forgetting. But if not, since the show spent years showing how the Barnes and Ewing families eventually learned to get along, would it make sense to have it flare up again 25 years later? I know it was a main point of the original Dallas, but with so much talk of continuity being ignored, that would seem to be a big step backward from where the series left off.

I'd be curious to see what others think. Thanks for letting me share!

[Laurie!]

Welcome...and I love your name!

I don't think the Barnes/Ewing fued had ever ended...except for the horrible seasons that weren't really Dallas. JR never would have sold Ewing Oil to Cliff Barnes...never....that was pathetic writing. Miss Ellie and Bobby were the more peaceful ones so them getting along with the Barnes family didn't really count as an end to the feud.

The entire premise of Dallas was the Barnes' and the Ewings....so it makes absolutely no sense to have a so-called continuation without the Barnes family's next generation. A child of Cliff's should be a nemesis of a Ewing...otherwise it's not Dallas.

[Pamela Barnes]

Yes you are spot on. It did end. It wasn;t really family feud , instead it became more of a comical one liner between Cliff and JR.

But yes Katzmans intention was to wrap it up as the show was shifting direction, especially without Pamela. As you say it all fizzled out. Bobby and Cliff became friends, Miss Ellie was over it all, I don't think she ever disliked Cliff anymore. But more importantly Cliff came to terms with it in what I thought was a lovely scene.

They had to end it, it became pointless.

[Sid Fairgate]

Yes you are spot on. It did end. It wasn;t really family feud , instead it became more of a comical one liner between Cliff and JR.

But yes Katzmans intention was to wrap it up as the show was shifting direction, especially without Pamela. As you say it all fizzled out. Bobby and Cliff became friends, Miss Ellie was over it all, I don't think she ever disliked Cliff anymore. But more importantly Cliff came to terms with it in what I thought was a lovely scene.

They had to end it, it became pointless.

And so did everything else that came after. IMO, Pamela Rebecca should have been the Pamela Ewing of the new series, and reignited the Barnes/Ewing feud by marrying either Christopher or John Ross. So what if it ended? John Ross and Christopher are obvioulsy clones of their fathers', and the oil on Southfork is going to play a big role again, so why not start up the Barnes/Ewing feud again as well?

[Pamela Barnes]

And so did everything else that came after. IMO, Pamela Rebecca should have been the Pamela Ewing of the new series, and reignited the Barnes/Ewing feud by marrying either Christopher or John Ross. So what if it ended? John Ross and Christopher are obvioulsy clones of their fathers', and the oil on Southfork is going to play a big role again, so why not start up the Barnes/Ewing feud again as well?

You are assuming they don't start it again but maybe not in the way you anticipated.

[Kenny Coyote]

When Victoria Principal left the show that was around the time that the real intense Barnes-Ewing feud came to an end. Cliff and JR would never be friends, but the intensity of the Barnes -Ewing feud was gone once Cliff realized the stupidity of it and realized that his nephew, Christopher Ewing, was important to him and he wanted to be on good terms with Bobby so Christopher could grow up with Cliff as a part of his life. There was also that Ewing Barbeque where Dandy Dandridge tried to shoot Cliff, accusing Cliff of stealing his land. It was then that Cliff realized how things probably happened between Jock and Digger, and he then met Miss Ellie in a park and told her about all this and that he wanted to end the feud.

I think they had done all they could with the Barnes Ewing feud and that with these new Ewings such as Lucas and Cally's child, the show can move in new directions and stay fresh, rather than be regurgitated old storylines.

[ProdicalSon]

Plus was the Ewing Oil that they were fighting over really the same after the Justice Department shut them down???

[Laurie!]

I think they had done all they could with the Barnes Ewing feud and that with these new Ewings such as Lucas and Cally's child, the show can move in new directions and stay fresh, rather than be regurgitated old storylines.

Again, the feud was never Miss Ellie/Bobby vs Cliff/Digger.

Plus, all this show is doing...is regurgitating old storylines...except this time it's stupidly two cousins instead of two brothers. This show has set itself up to be nothing more than a cheap, dollar store generic version of the original.

You have your knock-off Miss Ellie/Pam....ie, Ann with the forced shotgun scene designed solely to make original fans think of Miss Ellie as the gun toting tough Mama. Add in the "outsider" amongst Ewings who doesn't get along with JR and is fiercely loyal of Bobby and Christopher and you have a knock-off, generic Miss Ellie/Pam.

Then there's the whole, Elena, Christopher and Rebecca storyline that's a regurgitated version of Jenna, Bobby and Pam.

You have the battle for the Ewing legacy between Christopher and John Ross as the regurgitated Bobby/JR battle.

You have another regurgitated shooting.

Another regurgitated patriarchal health crisis.

More mafiaesque regurgitated crap.

Another regurgitated run for political office by a Ewing

You have a regurgitated version of "no drilling on Southfork"......

This show just needs a generic knock-off of a brand name such as Dalless...Dalloss...or my personal favourite, Dullas!

[MrsSuperman93]

Haaha! "Beware of Bobby's shower" LOVE that

[Cliff Barnes]

The feud really came and went throughout the years but it was in pretty full force by the final episodes of the last season, and was still a factor in JR Returns, whatever the status of that film turns out to be in canon. If you've ever followed many daytime soaps you realize these type of tv feuds never really totally die even if they go away for a few years. The Chandlers and Courtlandts on All My Children or Dorian and Vicki on One Life to Live would seemingly stop for awhile but always come back at some point because audiences expect it. It becomes one of the main focal points of a show I think, having a good rivalry and feud. So if they are trying to grab on to the old audience that cared about the story of the show and liked seeing that central theme from the pilot play out again and again, the feud, then odds are they will include it, if not all the time then at least semi-frequently as a plot element.

I did think JR Returns had a good final resolution to it so I am probably fine with it either way, whether it continues or not. It's a familiar part of the show on that always provides much fun on the one hand while on the other hand sometimes story elements can end if they have played out for awhile and reached a fine stopping point. I think basically it can be written either way.

[Pamela Barnes]

Again, the feud was never Miss Ellie/Bobby vs Cliff/Digger.

Plus, all this show is doing...is regurgitating old storylines...except this time it's stupidly two cousins instead of two brothers. This show has set itself up to be nothing more than a cheap, dollar store generic version of the original.

You have your knock-off Miss Ellie/Pam....ie, Ann with the forced shotgun scene designed solely to make original fans think of Miss Ellie as the gun toting tough Mama. Add in the "outsider" amongst Ewings who doesn't get along with JR and is fiercely loyal of Bobby and Christopher and you have a knock-off, generic Miss Ellie/Pam.

Then there's the whole, Elena, Christopher and Rebecca storyline that's a regurgitated version of Jenna, Bobby and Pam.

You have the battle for the Ewing legacy between Christopher and John Ross as the regurgitated Bobby/JR battle.

You have another regurgitated shooting.

Another regurgitated patriarchal health crisis.

More mafiaesque regurgitated crap.

Another regurgitated run for political office by a Ewing

You have a regurgitated version of "no drilling on Southfork"......

This show just needs a generic knock-off of a brand name such as Dalless...Dalloss...or my personal favourite, Dullas!

So what do you want it to be about? The fried green tomato store that Jenna Wade opens in Houston? On one hand you talk about wanting the Barnes/Ewing feud back, Pam back and yet don't like rehashing past concepts. I think you make it up as you go along.

Of course it was going to be about Christopher vs John Ross. That was always the plan, there is even a scene where Miss Ellie foretells it.

Infact it's far from 'cheap'. It looks like a movie, it plays like a movie. If anything it's the complete opposite of 'dime' store.

[Laurie!]

So what do you want it to be about? The fried green tomato store that Jenna Wade opens in Houston? On one hand you talk about wanting the Barnes/Ewing feud back, Pam back and yet don't like rehashing past concepts. I think you make it up as you go along.

Of course it was going to be about Christopher vs John Ross. That was always the plan, there is even a scene where Miss Ellie foretells it.

Infact it's far from 'cheap'. It looks like a movie, it plays like a movie. If anything it's the complete opposite of 'dime' store.

You're the one who makes things up as you go along. You said you didn't want the Barnes and instead wanted a new family because you want new family dynamics and fresh stories and you loved the pilot because of that....yet, all they did in the pilot and beyond is throw in new character names and have rehashed everything from the original! There's nothing fresh about it.

My point all along (I've been very consistent) has been...why make up new characters simply to have them replace old ones that were already there for a continuation (Margaret, Lucas, as well as John Ross, Christopher and potentially children of Lucy, etc.)? Instead of a continuation 21 years later, all they've seemingly done is recycle the old show storylines with characters that were never in Dallas.

When I watch a true Dallas continuation of the next generation...I want to see how Christopher copes with Bobby's biological son Lucas who has come to town wanting to get close with their father ( a new sibling rivalry that makes more sense than John Ross vs Christopher). I want to see John Ross possibly marry JR's arch nemesis Cliff's daughter. I want to see Margaret Krebbs working her way through law school or getting a masters in political science with whatever boyfriend...perhaps girlfriend she may have.

For a balance of older generation and younger, I want to find out where Pam has been for the last 25 years, why she left....and to see if VP and PD can still have the same kind of chemistry when Pam comes back to Dallas to create a conflict with Bobby and his new wife....they were brilliant at those, in love with each other but obligated to other people scenes. I want to see JR hating Cliff but perhaps teaming up to break up John Ross and Pamela Rebecca in new and creative ways. I want to see Donna running for Governor of Texas....etc.

You know why I want all of that? Cause that's a true Dallas continuation!!! Anything else should have been an entirely different show! That's not a difficult concept to grab Ms Pamela.

[Beware of Bobby's shower]

I think there's several good points raised here. On the one hand, if the show's called "Dallas," it should have the familiar elements of the Dallas we remember. On the other hand, nobody wants to watch an exact clone of the 1970s-1980s Dallas--if they did, they could just watch those seasons on DVD again. I guess my take is, What's most believable? Is it most believeable that Lucas and Margaret, having lived almost their whole lives in Europe and Washington, respectively, would leave their lives and feel compelled to come to Dallas to live among their uncles and cousins they barely know just because their parents lived there at one time? Is it most believable that the Barnes/Ewing feud, which seemed to be healing up through the series, flares up again 20 years later when J.R. and Cliff don't even seem to be in competition on anything anymore? (maybe it is--I'm just asking.) Is it most believeable that Christopher and Pamela Rebecca (I'm assuming J.R. Returns existed), after dating for three days during the span of that movie, are destined to be together forever, or at some point they didn't realize, "Hey, at least in name, we're cousins, and that's kinda weird to be dating" and they broke up? Maybe Christopher knew the woman he's with in the new series at the time he met Pamela Rebecca, and they were on a break. That's why, in my mind, the reunions being "ignored" isn't such a deal-breaker--those details can be worked around with a little fudging. After all, twenty years of this show took place off camera between 1991 and 2012. If they can "ignore" the TV movies, I can "ignore" the Facebook timeline. For all I know, Afton and Cliff broke up again after J.R. Returns because of something stupid Cliff did and she left town, with Pamela following her (it's happened before). Or Bobby stayed the restless, not interested in Ewing Oil guy who he was at the end of War of the Ewings, and sold his half back to Cliff again. Maybe Cliff and Sue Ellen were partners in Ewing Oil, and he planted the idea of her running for office, which prompted her to sell Cliff her half so she could have liquid funds for an exploratory campaign, letting Cliff have all of Ewing Oil, allowing him to sell it later. And there's any number of ways J.R. could have lost his fortune. The new show isn't saying that the Ewings live at the Southern Cross ranch or that J.R and Bobby have a brother named Bill Ewing and a mother named Miss Judy and they deal in fresh fruits and video games. The core of Dallas is there. If a few new characters are added in, it creates new relationships, which creates new and unexpected drama. I mean, I look at where I am today compared to where I was 20 years ago, and there's a lot of differences from then to now. Some friends and family have moved on, I've changed jobs. I've had breakups and new relationships. And there's some details from the past 20 years I'm sure I don't remember exactly right. I suppose I can give Dallas the same benefit of the doubt.

Just to be clear, though, I'm not saying IGNORE characters from the past. If there was a believable reason to bring Margaret to Dallas down the road (maybe to help with Sue Ellen's campaign), that's fine. I think Laurie's idea about the tension between Christopher and Lucas also has great potential down the road. I just don't need the show to be ALL Ewings right now for it to still be "Dallas." We all evolve. It can, too.

Just my opinion. I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do with it.

[Tessie]

Having the kids from Europe and Washington now living in Texas is more believable to me than having the Ewings who all love SF and don't dare leave it suddenly live in Europe (SE, JR3, JR, Ray, Jenna).

Of course there's a feud, that's the point of the show. It may flare up at times and fizzle at others, but then something happens and they all take sides again. I think the Jock/Digger feud had fizzled until Bobby and Pam married. There's no reason something can't happen again between the two families.

[Laurie!]

I think there's several good points raised here. On the one hand, if the show's called "Dallas," it should have the familiar elements of the Dallas we remember. On the other hand, nobody wants to watch an exact clone of the 1970s-1980s Dallas--if they did, they could just watch those seasons on DVD again. I guess my take is, What's most believable? Is it most believeable that Lucas and Margaret, having lived almost their whole lives in Europe and Washington, respectively, would leave their lives and feel compelled to come to Dallas to live among their uncles and cousins they barely know just because their parents lived there at one time? Is it most believable that the Barnes/Ewing feud, which seemed to be healing up through the series, flares up again 20 years later when J.R. and Cliff don't even seem to be in competition on anything anymore? (maybe it is--I'm just asking.) Is it most believeable that Christopher and Pamela Rebecca (I'm assuming J.R. Returns existed), after dating for three days during the span of that movie, are destined to be together forever, or at some point they didn't realize, "Hey, at least in name, we're cousins, and that's kinda weird to be dating" and they broke up? Maybe Christopher knew the woman he's with in the new series at the time he met Pamela Rebecca, and they were on a break. That's why, in my mind, the reunions being "ignored" isn't such a deal-breaker--those details can be worked around with a little fudging. After all, twenty years of this show took place off camera between 1991 and 2012. If they can "ignore" the TV movies, I can "ignore" the Facebook timeline. For all I know, Afton and Cliff broke up again after J.R. Returns because of something stupid Cliff did and she left town, with Pamela following her (it's happened before). Or Bobby stayed the restless, not interested in Ewing Oil guy who he was at the end of War of the Ewings, and sold his half back to Cliff again. Maybe Cliff and Sue Ellen were partners in Ewing Oil, and he planted the idea of her running for office, which prompted her to sell Cliff her half so she could have liquid funds for an exploratory campaign, letting Cliff have all of Ewing Oil, allowing him to sell it later. And there's any number of ways J.R. could have lost his fortune. The new show isn't saying that the Ewings live at the Southern Cross ranch or that J.R and Bobby have a brother named Bill Ewing and a mother named Miss Judy and they deal in fresh fruits and video games. The core of Dallas is there. If a few new characters are added in, it creates new relationships, which creates new and unexpected drama. I mean, I look at where I am today compared to where I was 20 years ago, and there's a lot of differences from then to now. Some friends and family have moved on, I've changed jobs. I've had breakups and new relationships. And there's some details from the past 20 years I'm sure I don't remember exactly right. I suppose I can give Dallas the same benefit of the doubt.

Just to be clear, though, I'm not saying IGNORE characters from the past. If there was a believable reason to bring Margaret to Dallas down the road (maybe to help with Sue Ellen's campaign), that's fine. I think Laurie's idea about the tension between Christopher and Lucas also has great potential down the road. I just don't need the show to be ALL Ewings right now for it to still be "Dallas." We all evolve. It can, too.

Just my opinion. I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do with it.

The backbone of Dallas was the Barnes/Ewing feud and they should never even consider a continuation of Dallas without that same backbone supporting the continuation. Anyone with an imagination can devise umpteen different ways to ignite that feud for the present day. To do Dallas without the Barnes/Ewing feud is Dallas sacrilege!

It's entirely plausible for an adult in his 20's...Lucas in this case...to come to Dallas to get to know his biological father. It would also be ironic and a different spin to have a Barnes daughter...Pamela Rebecca in this case...marry the evil son (John Ross), become pregnant and JR's first grandchild is a dreaded Barnes!

It's also very plausible for Margaret Krebbs to have come to Texas to attend university at her mother's alma mater, hang out with her first cousins and find love/work in Dallas.

[Fortune]

It would also be ironic and a different spin to have a Barnes daughter...Pamela Rebecca in this case...marry the evil son (John Ross), become pregnant and JR's first grandchild is a dreaded Barnes!

The only problem with that is JR's first grandchild is a boy named Jimmy who'd be about 23 by now. And they're clearly keeping James as canon in this new show. They went so far as to make special mention of him participating in Miss Ellie's funeral. Your idea about Margaret & Lucas is great...

[Kenny Coyote]

So what do you want it to be about? The fried green tomato store that Jenna Wade opens in Houston? On one hand you talk about wanting the Barnes/Ewing feud back, Pam back and yet don't like rehashing past concepts. I think you make it up as you go along.

Of course it was going to be about Christopher vs John Ross. That was always the plan, there is even a scene where Miss Ellie foretells it.

Infact it's far from 'cheap'. It looks like a movie, it plays like a movie. If anything it's the complete opposite of 'dime' store.

Sure, there were a lot of scenes where Miss Ellie talked about how she hoped that Christopher and John Ross wouldn't fight with each other over Ewing Oil just like JR and Bobby did. You could tell she thought they probably would end up fighting each other though; it was obvious that that was to be the destiny of the next generation of Ewings and so now we have it! Centering the show around something else wouldn't make as much sense or be as interesting. After all, who really cares that Christopher and John Ross are cousins fighting over Ewing Oil instead of brothers fighting over it? John Ross and Christopher are the two rightful claimants to the leadership of Ewing Oil, with Lucas being a very distant third since while Bobby was his biological father, Jenna and Ray were his parents, they raised him, naturally Ray would have adopted him.

I'm hoping Lucas is a part of the show because I think they could do some interesting things given that Bobby is his biological father, and I'm very much hoping that JR has a daughter from Cally or someone else since it would be nice to have a female Ewing in this new generation. But the Barnes-Ewing feud? It was put to rest. Cliff was the one who kept it going as long as it went because of his obsessiveness over "avenging" Digger until even Cliff came to realize just after Dandy Dandridge tried to shoot him that Digger's constant pitiful cries that Jock had cheated him were almost certainly alcohol fueled, paranoid ravings of a jealous man. Jealous that Jock married Miss Ellie and jealous that Jock became a success while Digger drank himself into a dismal life of regret and despair over what, in his mind, could have been or should have been. There was the scene in the park with Cliff and Miss Ellie where Cliff gives up the feud. From that point on, the main feud in Dallas became Westar Oil vs. Ewing Oil. Clearly they had resolved the Barnes-Ewing feud.

My feeling on things like sequels, reunions, and things like this new Dallas is that you shouldn't do it again unless you can do it better than the first time. How could you ever make up a more obsessive, deluded character with such an entirely one track mind consisting of avenging Digger Barnes as the original writers of Dallas and Ken Kercheval together created? Ken Kercheval was brilliant in the way that he played the character of Cliff Barnes. I really don't care to see them try to find some actor who tries to outdo Ken Kercheval based on lines the new writers have created for a new character who dedicates his entire life to "defending the good name of Digger Barnes and making the Ewings pay for how Jock cheated Digger." Do you?

[Greg Sumner]

Yo! If there IS still a Barnes/Ewing feud, they should bring in Richard Dawson to settle it once and for all.

[Swami]

They need to keep the Barnes/Ewing feud as a core element.

Swami

[Fortune]

I believe the feud is an important part of the show's history. And while I hope it will be acknowledged on the new show, I don't think it has to be central to the story as it once was. It seems that the conflict will be more Ewing vs Ewing this time around. Ofcourse if my predictions about Rebecca Sutter prove to be true then it could very well become a Barnes vs Ewing feud when she learns Christopher is still seeing Elena on the DL.