Just awful - deserves to be axed

[Pamela Barnes]

Oh lordy. I just watched Robin's exit and the following episodes and I can't believe this type of rubbish is still on TV in 2012. We don't have perfect TV in the UK but this was never make it onto one of our bad channels let alone a major network.

Terrible writing, awful acting, cheap sets, dialogue, everything. Its format still feels stuck in the 60's and 70's. It was painful to watch. I just can't see any excuse for it. Don't they want it to be good? No wonder these shows are being axed, I can't believe they have lasted this long.

Why does it take 2 episodes for one conversation to end. This is such a poor format for a show in 2012.

It was laughable. Her body was left in the room for what felt like an eternity while people were on the phone informing people, even her own mother. Ridiculous.

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

LMAO!! You do realize this is the new and improved GH right? They're merging GH and OLTL together. I actually find GH to be much better right now. It was the worst it's ever been so the new writers have a lot to work on. Their first episode was the one after Robin died so they're still trying to clean up the old mess and get started. I personally don't mind the format. It's just the way US soaps work.

[Pamela Barnes]

It's just the way US soaps work.

But they don't work, hence the fact they are dying. Instead of gimmicks why not be creative with the format.

[Pamela Barnes]

It's just the way US soaps work.

But they don't work, hence the fact they are dying. Instead of gimmicks why not be creative with the format.

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

Some of them are working, for example, The Bold and the Beautiful is the highest rated soap worldwide with over 30 million viewers. Some soaps have made subtle changes, like B&B going to HD and regularly featuring location shooting (they've done two recent remotes in Aspen, Mexico and are going to Italy in May) and they've modernized the scripts, but it's still the same US soap format. That's what American fans want, just better written.

The soaps that got canceled were either neglected for years or in the case of Guiding Light, attempted a new format and failed. Guiding Light tried to do the more realistic, down home drama feel of UK soaps with a lot of outdoor, natural shooting and it failed miserably.

And also, not all of them are failing. One Life to Live was just canceled as the second highest rated show on ABC Daytime. It's also been underbudget for years and maintained a year of ratings spikes with no promotion. And when this new writing team took over at GH, they've been on an upswing as well with their highest ratings in months. I think it's unfair to say soaps are dying when nobody is spending any money to promote them. If OLTL could manage 3 million viewers with no promotion, imagine how well it would've done if promoted.

Look at your UK soaps, they wouldn't be nearly as popular if they weren't in the magazines, didn't air promos on tv or radio, etc. Soaps are dying because nobody wants to make them work, not because it's a doomed format. Each of the remaining four soaps in air (plus One Life) have proved ratings can go up if the quality is good and with a little promo.

Also, the shows replacing the soaps can't manage even half of what the soaps were generating in terms of ratings. ABC made such a huge blunder selling One Life To Live that Disney is going to lose millions of dollars this season. The huge outrage and exodus of viewers showed the power of soap fans when given a chance.

For curiosity sake, here's the final episode of Guiding Light. You can see the new format, when they switched to more realistic storytelling/look.

[TJames03]

Yes, it is time for the soaps to go. I was raised on Daytime and Nighttime soaps and am gobsmacked at how bad they became.

TPTB in the US don't know when to gracefully exit when a show begins to fall apart.

Over here in the US, quantity tops quality.

[alexis]

I like the US daytime format style, where one day can last two weeks in real time. I never thought of US soaps as realistic. There is or was a heightend sense of fantasy and make believe in them. The characters, story lines, the sets, not realistic. I think thats what worked, they were "stories" made for entertainment and escapisim. Going down a more realistic route or trying to make them like the british soaps would be a bad idea. I think the networks have wanted them off the air for years because they cost more money than talk shows and reality tv. They cost more because of cast, sets, etc. And then they need to be advertised and promoted. Which hasn't really been happening. They need to be better written, but still in the old soap style. And they need promotion.

By the way that Guiding Light clip was like torture. The acting was bad. And the "realistic" look wasn't realistic. It was CHEAP!

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

Guiding Light was a total disaster in their quest for realism . I remember one episode with people just walking around in the bushes and nothing happened in an effort to show real life. It was nuts and so poorly executed.

[James from London]

Look at your UK soaps, they wouldn't be nearly as popular if they weren't in the magazines, didn't air promos on tv or radio, etc.

Hmm, I wonder if that's true. They're pretty much the most popular shows on TV here, more or less. I don't know that they'd necessarily be struggling without all the extra PR, but it's hard to say.

The UK soaps aren't realistic. No one lives like that. But they can be, on a good day, believable. There's a fundamental difference between realism and believability. Surely whoever makes GUIDING LIGHT would know that much.

[Pamela Barnes]

The hand held camera just doesn't work. I don't think that's anything like UK soaps, more like the Australian Neighbours. But I like the look of it. I think the dialogue should be pacey, they should move quicker. I think B&B has been a success because its shorter and punchier. I used to like GH, I think it had some great characters and had a comedy/drama balance I enjoyed but it was painfully slow. The recent episodes I watched were truly dire. It's like something children write.

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

I think with Guiding Light in the hands of someone competent that could've worked. They used the same hand held cameras used on Friday Night Lights, but the lighting, set design, music, writing and just about everything was so poorly written and executed. I think each soap should try and find what works for it.

One Life to Live worked by mixing in comedy with an urban feel and having lots of heart while still being fairly campy. The Young and the Restless is very traditional and pretty much sticks to what's kept them #1. The Bold and the Beautiful is always taking risks, now paying off with a much younger cast, faster pacing, more location shooting, lots of sex and comedy. Then the new plan to save GH is to try and make it more similar to the 80s and 90s storytelling. The plan is to balance those over the top action-adventure stories of the 80s with the darker, more serious social issues/mob wars of the 90s. Only time will tell if that'll work out though.

Also, yall might be interested in knowing that there's a new soap called Hollywood Heights which will be aired five-nights-a-week in primetime! That was pretty big news for the genre. It's written by Josh Griffin who created Sunset Beach and the Executive Produce is Jill Farren Phelps who helped GH the past 10 years. I'm very curious about the look, feel and pacing of it since it's written/produced by the old soap guard, yet is airing in primetime. Also will be interesting to see if it's successful. Could be a re-birth for soaps.

[alexis]

Oh I'm very intrigued by Hollywood Heights... That sounds interesting. I hate that theres no US daytime soaps on here anymore. I would love to be able to skyplus them and then watch them in the evenings. I used to love watChing The Bold & The Beautiful at 6pm on Diva tv week nights. It kicked off my soap viewing, then it was Emmerdale and Corrie and Eastenders. I have no The Bold & The Beautiful now. And I have kicked Emmerdale and Corrie off my shedule. They now suck IMO.

[CarlD]

Agree, have been recording GH when I heard Robin "died". Will record thru this Tues, then that will be it.

It took them forever to finally have the service. I was really amazed and quite frankly a little ticked off, that the writers wrote Robert Scorpio out of the story BEFORE the funeral.

[Pamela Barnes]

Agree, have been recording GH when I heard Robin "died". Will record thru this Tues, then that will be it.

It took them forever to finally have the service. I was really amazed and quite frankly a little ticked off, that the writers wrote Robert Scorpio out of the story BEFORE the funeral.

But what happens to these actors when they get on a soap? Finola Hughes is not the greatest actress but was never as dire on Charmed as she appears on GH. When she was saying Stop it over and over to Robins (Boyfriend?) it was like watching a school play.

[Daniel Avery]

The acting...um, issues can be blamed in part on the pace of modern US soap production. They're often doing seven hour-long episodes a week (rather than five) and filming two or three episodes at the same time, doing scenes out of sequence, etc. One of the reasons Frank Valentini was able to keep One Life to Live under budget was filming so much stuff out of sequence, doing batches of scenes using a certain set, with certain actors. This meant actors are often doing scenes unaware of the build-up, the motivation, etc. Someone just walks up, hands you a three-minute scene and tells you to say it with feeling. Did I mention they've virtually abolished rehearsal time?

I do dislike what has come of the American daytime soaps, but trying to "reinvent" the format has almost universally failed to help. It's interesting that the one who resisted this need to reinvent the longest, Y&R, has held on the longest as highest-rated. It's only the recent attempts at reinvention that caused its ratings slide (yes, Lynn Marie Latham, I'm looking at you). I have always been a fan of the older style of storytelling (Agnes Nixon's old maxim, "Make them laugh, make them cry, make them WAIT") and find myself enjoying reruns of the old soaps rather than any of the current shows.

It's written by Josh Griffin who created Sunset Beach and the Executive Produce is Jill Farren Phelps who helped GH the past 10 years. I'm very curious about the look, feel and pacing of it since it's written/produced by the old soap guard, yet is airing in primetime

Ack! Saying JFP "helped" GH for the past ten years is like saying Hurricane Katrina "helped" New Orleans with that little redecorating problem.

[Pamela Barnes]

Maybe that format feels alien to me. It feels like something from the 1960's when a 'woman' was a home and dipped in and out while cleaning with her latest hoover.

Surely peoples expectations are different in 2012? How can you jump to such a contrast for primetime with some of the hottest shows on television - well produced, well written, well acted yet have this complete extreme because its classed as 'daytime'. I don't expect daytime to have the same budget in terms of production values but surely the awful, painfully awful, writing is unacceptable.

It sounds like people are watching out of either sheer loyalty or because that's all on offer if you don't like chat shows and Judge Judy.

[MSW]

I've been watching GH for the first time this past month, and I've been hooked. I think, for the most part, it's been quite enjoyable.

So I couldn't disagree with Ms Pamela more.

[MrsSuperman93]

I've been trying to keep up whenever I can but I haven't seen all of it.

Mac's reaction broke my heart But the problem is how much it all STILL revolved around Jason. Don't get me wrong - I'm well aware of the Jason/Robin history and I'm glad the writers have never dismissed it but it was all Sam being like "Jason can never know".

I don't see much progress with GH, tbh. It's still missing so much. And I don't think it will ever get it back. The core families - the Spencer's, the Quartermaine's, the Jones', the Scorpio's, the Webber's - have been torn apart/killed off and it ruined the heart of the show for so many fans.

But saying that, I know lots of oldies are on their way back! I still hold out hope... small hope, but hope...

[Benny JR]

Ugh, Daytime Soaps, more specifically American ones, are some of the worst television around. I'm not saying British or even Irish ones are good, either. But, at least they try. As Ms Pamela outlined in her first post, a lot of it is down to the set design (or lack of good set design), acting and even original decent storylines while not being stupid.

The '80's years of "The Bold And The Beautiful" look okay, but anything recent (2005 to lately) is just terrible. Why do most characters shout their lines? It doesn't improve anything. Another ridiculous show I came across before was "Passions", now THAT was just a dumb show! Something like a girl wearing a mermaid tail, a small child communicating with speech bubbles appearing on screen and again, the bad dialogue and acting. It seems these shows have a rule about bad acting and unoriginality.

Now, I've seen some crap before on the likes of "Dynasty" and "The Colbys", but compared to a Daytime Soap, they look award-worthy!

Someone tried to get me to watch to watch "The Bold And The Beautiful" before, it was around the 2005 year of the show, and it was just awful! I wonder how well-established actors from "Dallas" and "Knots Landing" such as Patrick Duffy, Joan Van Ark and Ted Shackelford feel about appearing in these shows? It must feel like a real step down and a soul-destroying experience, compared to starring in a real well-executed TV Series such as "Dallas" and "Knots Landing", especially their prime years.

Also, even though these shows might get good ratings, does that really mean they're good? No!

Just because something has high ratings does not mean it is good. People might just tune in to see how bad it is, or maybe they watch it because they're loyal or because there's nothing else on, as Ms Pamela pointed-out above. Remember how Season 5 of "Dynasty" was Number 1 in the ratings? Did that mean it was good? No. There were better Episodes of that Series than what Season 5 churned-out. Also, remember "Arrested Development"? Never got good ratings, but it was a very good, clever show, and it got cancelled after only Three TV Seasons.

So keep in mind that good ratings do not necessarily mean that it's a good show.

[MSW]

I wonder how well-established actors from "Dallas" and "Knots Landing" such as Patrick Duffy, Joan Van Ark and Ted Shackelford feel about appearing in these shows? It must feel like a real step down and a soul-destroying experience, compared to starring in a real well-executed TV Series such as "Dallas" and "Knots Landing", especially their prime years.

Actually, they've spoken very favorably of their time on daytime dramas and have even acknowledged how tough the work was and how they admired the actors that do it. They're not snobs about it and nor should they be.