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    Administrator Pamela Barnes's Avatar
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    Default Help its all a bit marmite

    I'm not sure if Im having Tennant withdrawal but I am finding it rather difficult to feel anything toward the new Doctor.

    Ok I appreciate Im not the target demographic but I feel like I'm watching Harry Potter. Yes he is quirky and yes we know he gets angry but he lacks the edge of the previous two incarnations.

    The cinematic production is also great but.............

    I feel like Im watching Doctor Who but without the Doctor............

    Anyway as I find both Pond and the Doctor rather uninspireing it was fantastic to see River Song. Watching her on screen didnt help me warm toward Matt Smith, as she was just so good.

    It was like she would have been a better Doctor.

    I want to like him. But I can't.

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    Soapy Art Director J. R.'s Piece's Avatar
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    S'okay! Of course, I don't know what to say. So, I won't stop. I absolutely loved David Tennant's Doctor from before he said "Barcelona" in 2005 and his Children In Need appearance later that year only consolidated that.... but I don't miss him. Matt Smith does say in the latest DWM that his Doctor does change/develop.

    Mind you, I was never really fond of the Pertwee Doctor. All the stuff that I found interesting about him was scripted (the juxtaposition of the man who revelled in fancy clothes and appeared to enjoy fine food and wine and clubs [although he was more often seen tinkering with equipment] with the Buddhist stuff ([and he was far too temperamental to be good at it]...and he was was quite annoying and why Jo didn't thump him in season 8 after the patronising/insults.....and despite suggestions people have said that that one was too "establishment", he wasn't really at all. He was more likely to be found assisting a plot to undermine it. He could crack a story with anyone and but it was nice when his curiosity and crystal-nicking proved his downfall. But....the performance was too concise....and a bit too serious for my liking...and in a more obviously "hero" mould way that didn't interest me as much as his immediate predecessor had ....and nowhere near as complex in character or portrayal.....the Second Doctor was at his most mysterious, oblique, subtle and complex during his first season and would frequently quietly stay in the background of his stories until things had gone really REALLY wrong and then take charge....but would clown to confuse his enemies into underestimating him and be constantly using masks, hiding his personality...and there was more fun and naughtiness too.

    Still, is it early days yet? Maybe best to see how the rest of the season develops?

    Feel?

    Actually episodes 4 and 5 were the first episodes to be filmed for this season.

    What's this about target demographic?

    Lacks the edge? How do you mean?

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    Administrator Pamela Barnes's Avatar
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    Well 8 - 12 year olds are the target audience, but obviously it plays to a wider audience. Thats the demographic.

    With the previous two doctors I felt they portrayed this darker edge, it wasnt so much about acting moments, as in getting angry or reflectful, it was in the whole performance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pamela View Post
    Ok I appreciate Im not the target demographic but I feel like I'm watching Harry Potter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pamela View Post
    Well 8 - 12 year olds are the target audience, but obviously it plays to a wider audience. Thats the demographic.
    Lil Ome is 11 years and she really doesn't like or she hasn't taken to Smith at all.

    I'm a few years older & I'm really enjoying Smith in this role. There's a few moments where I'm seeing a little Tennant in him and I don't like that, but maybe that's what happens when an actor follows another actor in the same role.

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    Soapy Art Director J. R.'s Piece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pamela View Post
    Well 8 - 12 year olds are the target audience, but obviously it plays to a wider audience. Thats the demographic.
    Robert Holmes, writer and script editor during Tom Baker's first 3.5 years said at the time to Jean Rook:
    Parents would be terribly irresponsible to leave a six-year-old to watch it alone. It's geared to the intelligent fourteen-year-old, and I wouldn't let any child under ten see it.

    whereas BBC Drama has claimed:
    As well as appealing to (and satisfying) the old fans, this new series has garnered its own new fans. Breaking away from the traditional Doctor Who demographic, the new fans are people who hardly remember the old series - they're young and old, male, female, straight, gay and from every economic background.

    ..and according to the BBC's website:
    Doctor Who is a family show and airs before the watershed. All content therefore abides by the pre-watershed guidelines

    By the darker edge, do you mean all that Time War stuff or something else in the performance?
    Last edited by J. R.'s Piece; 05-03-2010 at 11:16 PM.

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    I enjoy Smith... he's certainly not as dynamic as Tennant, which is a good thing. I enjoy his craziness, it adds a different kind of humor to the show. I do worry that Amy is taking some of the focus off the Doctor, but that will improve, I'm sure.
    Last edited by Garrison; 05-10-2010 at 07:02 AM.
    Brown for first course, white for pudding. Brown is savoury, white's the treat. Of course I'm the one who's laughing, because I actually love brown toast

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    Soapy Art Director J. R.'s Piece's Avatar
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    The new sonic screwdriver is a bit of a sticking point too. At least, the toy version is. The sound chips have failed in some of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pamela View Post
    I'm not sure if Im having Tennant withdrawal but I am finding it rather difficult to feel anything toward the new Doctor.
    I'm not sure that I ever feel anything towards the Doctor. Except that he is bonkers. Which is good.
    Last edited by J. R.'s Piece; 05-10-2010 at 02:11 PM.

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    You ARE watching HARRY POTTER , you're quite correct Pamela , the new producers are huge Potter fans and they have a mission statement if you like to make Who into " dark fairytale" .
    Hence the title sequence I guess ....

    I'm loving Smith he's totally nuts and cool and nothing like Tenant which is what's required after his stellar run, newness !

    It's the scripts that haven't really turned me on yet, I enjoyed the first story very very much but apart from River Song it's been a bit lacklustre. Having said that Tenants first season has a few clonkers so I'm happy to wait and see if it improves , I didn't understand tonights episode at all , what the hell was that all about ? What was that weird thing at the end? I couldn't HEAR it the sound is so poorly mixed so it made no sense at all .

    The BBC are really taking the piss with the sound . It's pathetic and self indulgent to make the show in surround and not cater to the majority of viewers who don't have ten grand Bosche systems installed .

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    Love it all. I use subtitles. If I don't get it the first time round, I watch again on the iPlayer sober. If all else fails, I consult the Guardian's excellent WHO blog and that explains everything about why I'm thinking everything I'm thinking:

    Doctor Who: Amy's Choice – series 31, episode seven

    Some viewers may be less than impressed – and the episode is certain light on FX – but there's plenty to like in this cunning character piece

    Dan Martin's episode six blog

    "No no no, ice can burn, sofas can read, it's a big universe, we have to decide which battle to lose."

    Amy's Choice is what's known as "the cheap one". Every year, either because they've spent all the budget or are saving it up to splurge on the finale, there's an episode light on sets and FX, and big on ideas. The process can result in howlers like Boom Town, or tour de forces such as Turn Left. And this Simon Nye-penned curio is at least partially successful. Not everyone will like it, I'm sure, but for me the episode stands up as a cunning little character piece.

    So we find two worlds: one in the Tardis with the crew approaching death by freezing star, one five years further forward with Amy and Rory expecting their first child. The result is by no means perfect. Where most Doctor Who episodes feel like the 45-minute running time is overflowing with ideas and storylines, Amy's Choice feels as if it could be over and done with in half an hour. Then there's the dialogue – so sitcom stylised that this time it begins to grate. And while it can't be easy to act falling-asleep-on-the-spot, much of the time those (many) sequences look silly.

    But here's the thing to remember: if Doctor Who is silly anyway, these two realities both turn out to be dreams, and the magic-realist state of a dream can support even dafter images. Both an army of marauding pensioners, and Amy donning a poncho and telling her boys "if we're going to die, let's die looking like a Peruvian folk band" can be completely plausible.

    "I don't know what you're doing in here, but there's only one person in the universe who hates me as much as you do"

    Where most episodes stand up to repeated viewing, rewatching this week's instalment would be absolutely necessary. For the most part, it feels like a fun Shaun Of The Dead-style romp, all murderous pensioners and lashings of jolly innuendo. Then you get the sting in the tail and the more accurate reference is Fight Club – the revelation that the Dreamlord is actually the Doctor's own self-loathing seems obvious once it's revealed, but also creates the kind of "whoosh" moment that gives a story new gravitas. And the Dreamlord really is deliciously mean, calling him out on his every character flaw; his love of showing off, his clothes, the way he turns people into weapons (to quote Davros), the way he leaves people behind. It's pretty heavy stuff and, at the mid-season point, gives us the first instance of the character opening up and beginning to unravel. Then there's the merciless teasing of Rory … well, that says a lot for this increasingly tangled set of relationships.

    "If you can't save him, then what is the point of you?"

    Amy's Choice of course is between her two men, the feckless fiancé and the heroic adventurer. It takes Rory's "death" in Leadworth to make her realise what she really wants. Earlier this week we were discussing how Amy hasn't had much in the way of emotional storylines, but the climax here finally proves that Gillan is capable of more than one-liners and physical comedy – and brings something to your eye, too. The comedy's still good though – pregnant-Amy's waddle as she tries to run is a brilliant echo of The Eleventh Hour, when she couldn't run properly because of her skirt.

    This kind of resolution, though, is the kind of thing that would normally happen at the end of a series as the character is waved off. Now we're only halfway through and they've sorted out the love triangle. But surely there's no way they're going to just have a happy couple together in the Tardis, and in any case I'm not sure I want Rory there the whole time. So where are they going with this? And shouldn't there have been a line where Amy expressed some kind of grief over the child she thought she was having?

    Fear factor

    It pays to think of watching this as a child. Not only has the series freaked them out over cracks in walls, monsters under the bed, the dark, statues and blinking, this introduces the notion that your dreams might actually be real. So now a generation of children are going to be scared of waking up. Horrendous!

    Timey trivia

    This was the final episode to be filmed and editing on it finished this week. That means that nobody who wrote previews got to see the finished episode.


    guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited 2010
    "Anyone who reacts critically to a show in a written-down form, whether it's professionally or in a blog, is responding to the programme in a perfectly valid way, but in an utterly atypical way. That's just not how people watch television." - Steven Moffat

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    Oh that makes sense I missed most if that , I didn't have the subtitles on though, I'll watch it again on BBC3 tomorrow night. With Subtitles.

    Matt Smith always looks interesting , what a face, so much going on and always surprising. I could watch an episode where the camera never leaves his face .

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    Administrator Pamela Barnes's Avatar
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    Ok I have started to warm to him after todays episode. I think Im ageist and he just looks too young. Its like watching Doctor Who's son. Doctor Who: The next Generation (no pun intended).

    But I enjoyed the episode tonight, thought its the strongest of the episodes so far.

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    Soapy Art Director J. R.'s Piece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pamela View Post
    Its like watching Doctor Who's son.
    Does he have one?...oh, William Hartnell wanted to play him...Troughton is supposed to have jokingly called Hartnell Dad prior to filming the renewing sequence...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pamela View Post
    he just looks too young.
    Regeneration...I don't want to think about Last Of The Timelords during Breakfast. I do find it odd cos I was was excited by Matt by the time that the closing credits rolled on The End Of Time Part 2.

    Although Steven Moffat was thinking along the lines of a slightly older actor, Matt was the one who nailed it the best audition, suggesting that there is that experience but in a younger body. There was a slightly larger age drop difference between Hartnell and Troughton (Troughton being 12 years and four-and-a-half years younger than Hartnell) than there is between Tennant and Smith...and Paul McGann is 13 years younger than Sylvester McCoy....and Davison was 29 when he took on the part.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKQNZweeAi8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM_WpGtDZAE

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    Doctor Who left this years NTA awards empty handed. I do hope this doesnt dissaloution Matt Smith in his role ae the Doctor as I think he's doing a great job and I like him, it's just the scripts. The scripts are letting him down, I know the show has changed but a lot of the changes were unnecesary. Why change the shape of the Daleks, we all loved them as they were. If your gonna change the theme tune, make it better, not worse. The costume is wrong, this young 27 year old Doctor shouldnt be in tweeds and a bow tie, bring back Ecclestones leather jacket & jumper, make him appeal to the kids. Moffat needs to do something drastic to save the show, or else we may be in danger of losing it again !

    PS - That doesnt mean losing Amy, I like Amy, they just need to make her more...............................whatever !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    PS - That doesnt mean losing Amy, I like Amy, they just need to make her more...............................whatever !

    I don't think it would do any harm if Amy was to leave the show.



    Quote Originally Posted by J. R.'s Piece View Post
    Does he have one?...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ome View Post
    It doesn't look like a Troughton.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ome View Post
    I see the resemblance now!


    http://blakes7.wikia.com/wiki/Del_Tarrant



    So you would want to cast a pretty Tarranted individual?
    Last edited by J. R.'s Piece; 01-31-2011 at 06:52 AM.

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    Takes time ( and space )

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshineboyuk View Post
    Takes time
    Time is.... relative.

    Season 23 had featured Michael Jayston as the Valeyard, a distillation of the evil, dark aspects of the Doctorr from betwixt Doctors 12-13.

    Harry Potter? Harry Melling has portrayed Dudley Dursley. Harry Melling is Patrick Troughton's grandson
    Last edited by J. R.'s Piece; 05-16-2010 at 08:31 PM.

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    My wife and son are both avid Dr Who fans, both were upset when David Tennant left and disappointed by Matt Smith's appointment. A few episodes in? My wife remains dubious about him but my son is coming round - slowly. As another poster said - takes time...

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    The Silurian comeback is thrilling isn't it. The Pertwee Silurian story was one of the first novels I owned as a kid.

    Did anyone else feel the show suddenly clicked when Meera Syal went in the TARDIS? It suddenly went all Donba Noble and the companion relationship felt mature and interesting.

    I loved Tates season and I do think New Who has mixed up the companion line ups nicely with Jack and ex corrie boi Todd having a brief run as a companion , it's great.

    I'd love it if Meera became companion we need more mature companions and actors in the TARDIS , their brief scenes together were filled with chemistry. I know it's wishful thinking but I do hope she sticks around for a bit , fab stuff!

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