He is the most undervalued character on any forum posting about Angel. Hell, I think Gunn would have loved the Scoobies. He already liked Willow and Faith. And Cordelia.
To the point, and there is a point I promise.
Gunn was fighting the vampires and he wasn't a slayer wouldn't even know a slayer from a non-slayer.
Gunn is the most tragic character on Angel. Ok, Thesis time.
In War Zone, when Gunn and Angel first meet, it was not a happy occasion. Gunn's sister accused him of seeking death, later Angel says pretty much the same thing. Gunn stakes his sister. Gunn always took responsibility for everyone he was supposed to protect, like Angel. (Sorry, Elton's "Don't Let the Sun Go Down on me" is playing, I get distracted.) The seminal episode with Gunn is when Cordelia is trying to save him. I think Gunn was a negative of Angel. After his sister dies, and then his friend dies, he beats up a wall, just like Angel did in "The Trial". Nobody mentions that episode much, but the violence Angel unleashes, the frustration of not being able to fix things, and he pummels a stone pillar. Gunn would have done the same.
MOre importantly than anything, Gunn didn't have super powers, not much for the books, just wanted, like Angel, to pound on something.
I don't blame Gunn for what happened to Fred. He truly didn't know what would happen, just that someone would pay for his permanent brain upgrade.
One more thing.
Angel says to Gunn, "I'll be around." "Not looking for help." "Ok, but I might."
Also, loved that exchange between Gunn and Angelus in S4.
Gunn, he's definitely my least favorite Buffyverse character I think.
Okay, Oz is actually my least favorite but then it's Gunn right after Oz.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT GUNN IS A HEAVEY CHARACTER SAME TO OZ HE CRAKED ME UP I WAS DEVASTED WHEN HE LEFTED I ALMOSTED STOP WACHING BUFFY FOR ABOUT 2 EPISODES LOL!Originally Posted by Christine
Gunn, he's definitely my least favorite Buffyverse character I think.
Okay, Oz is actually my least favorite but then it's Gunn right after Oz.
But you do have to have a least favorite character, right?
It's not that I hate Oz but I just don't love him as much as the other characters on Buffy.
BTW Jacky, using capslock always sounds as if you were screaming at us. LOL
And I can't read it very well for some strange reason. ?
I so agree about Gunn. It's clear that no one really got it that he never felt like he fit in. Not even Fred really understood Gunn. She saw Gunn and loved him for who she thought he was, but she never realized how he felt, deep inside. Fred and Wesley were intellects. Angel had the wisdom of centuries. Lorne was blessed with special powers. Connor was superboy. Gunn was... Gunn.
When Fred sought out Wesley's help to kill her old mentor, the man who sent her to through to the hell dimension, she said to Wesley that she loved Gunn because he wasn't the sort of man to take a life,and it was why she turned to him... in the end, Gunn betrayed his own principles and killed Fred's mentor to protect her and to stop her from getting her hands dirty.
It always struck me as odd that he was willing to do anything for her, anything to protect him, and she never 'got' Gunn. (I still loved their relationship and hated to see them drift apart). That one act should have had Fred and the others questioning Gunn and what was going on with him, inside. Wolfram and Hart knew Gunn better than just about anyone else... sadly enough.
I agree, Gunn was a tragic character, but not just because of who he was, but that so many people around him had no idea about who he was. I loved the character, probably after Angel and 'hero' Spike.
Norrth's "Coffee at Cafe Russe"
It's not really odd it's Love.It always struck me as odd that he was willing to do anything for her, anything to protect him, and she never 'got' Gunn.
I think Gunn really, really loved Fred, always.
But she never really loved him but she didn't know it.
and just like xander did when joyce died (thinkit was 'the body'?)
plus you have to recall 'apocolypse nowish.' remember, it was gunn who figured out the "puzzle." i thought that was great.
When Xander punches a wall in "The Body" I was really puzzled. No, I wasn't puzzled, I knew exactly why he did. You can't fight Death. Xander wasn't willing to accept Joyce's death.
Maybe, Christine is right, you got to pick a character you don't like so much. To me Warren Mears was the primo candidate for that.
I remember watching Angel with my friend, and she would say so many times when Gunn would say, "I'm just the muscle." No, you're not, she would say. I had no idea what she was talking about because she wanted me to watch Angel without her interference, her knowing of what would happen to Gunn and Fred.
I agree completely Christine about Gunn and Fred.
What I want to know is why so many things could have been averted if everyone was talking to each other instead assuming it was all doomed.
Why didn't Angel take Kate to a Demon bar? Why not? Here it is, Kate, demons are real. Vs. Yeah, Kate I am a vampire and once the nastiest vamp in the land.
Why didn't Buffy tell Willow what happened with Angel? That his soul was restored, yet she killed him anyway, because that is what she had to do?
Why didn't Angel tell Wesley, Fred and Gunn what he did to make Connor safe? These are not irrational people.
Why didn't President Logan call the Russian president and tell him what was at stake? Ok, off topic. But not really. David Fury is on board with 24 and as a funny aside Audrey Raines used Jane Espenson as her alias.
Gunn is one of these characters I neither care for nor hate. He leaves me cold, he is just not really interesting to me, I can't even say exactly why that is. I too find him a bit dull, but fortunately he is still watchable enough for me that I don't need to fast-forward through his scenes. Had he died, I wouldn't have shed a tear for him. So I would say, nothing is worse for any character if people don't care for him, if they hate or love him would at least mean they are interested.
Unfortunately, Christine, I agree with you. I say unfortunately because I adored Gunn and Fred together. Fred believed that she loved Gunn, but after coming back from the hell dimension, it seems that she was really looking for someone who made her feel 'safe'. She needed a 'warrior' who would fight for her to the end... Angel, despite his soul, was too close to thing/terror she feared, and could easily become that thing again. Wesley, at the time, didn't read as a 'warrior'. I dunno. It was such a waste of what could have been such a beautiful love story.
As much as Gunn loved Fred, I can only imagine how much deeper his grief would have been if was still with Fred when the transformation took place and he realized that she was gone for good.
Wesley's panting after Fred always drove me crazy.
Norrth's "Coffee at Cafe Russe"
sorryBut you do have to have a least favorite character, right?
It's not that I hate Oz but I just don't love him as much as the other characters on Buffy.
BTW Jacky, using capslock always sounds as if you were screaming at us. LOL
And I can't read it very well for some strange reason. ?
Christine, sorry. I am a mani---no, nsy, love Storyteller. But what if our belt buckles..In my plan we are betless!
sorry
No need to apologize, just wanted to point out that I am too blonde to be able to read capslock.
Wow, I apparently had too much ...chowder. Dang chicken chowder. Curse chowder to hell and, well there is no and. Oh yeah there is an "and" Oz was funny at least. When he gave Willow the Witch Pez, and she says, "What's the ocassion?" "You are." Acually she said in Willow speak, "What's the O-cassion?"
When Oz and Angel reunionize. "Angel." "Oz." Then Doyle--my favorite dead Bracken demon--says, "Are they always like this?"
And Oz says, "Once we were laconic."
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