Charisma Carpenter's exit from Angel

[sunshineboyuk]

Group Hug !

[Canon]

Aww yes we're a loving bunch down here in the Buffy/Angel discussion forum. We're like a little cult, we're the chosen ones with Christine as leader. No petty "mine is bigger then yours" (*cough* EE fans in the general soap forum *cough*) squabbles will be found down here.

[sunshineboyuk]

Yes this is the sanest place on the internet .. the fact you allow me to post here and no one kicks off is a minor miracle . I was discussing the sanity and calm of this forum with James and he was saying how it's because you guys are all confident in the show and you love it. I agree. I think when posters are insecure ( Falcon Crest , EE ) about their show they get very defensive and aggressive , the more you question the show and bring new ideas and perspectives the more they rally round to murder you ... I' can honestly say it's a total pleasure posting here , even if you are all on day release from the Fans Of Buffy Sanitarium .

[Spike]

LOL. Yes, sunshine, we are all confident. Who would want to kick you out? You are too funny, mate. Sorry. I meant, brawly. In Americanese it would be too funny, guy. god I hate that.

[Christine]

In every internet community there is a chosen one. He alone will piss off other posters and make them wanna leave and never ever post KL articles again. He is the Sunshineboy!

Yes, that's funny Sunny, I haven't even noticed. Here in this forum we all get your humour! I wonder, will this harm the balance of the space/time continuum, will earth explode soon?
Or is this the mirrorverse maybe?
I am confused

[Christine]

I was discussing the sanity and calm of this forum with James and he was saying how it's because you guys are all confident in the show and you love it. I agree. I think when posters are insecure ( Falcon Crest , EE ) about their show they get very defensive and aggressive , the more you question the show and bring new ideas and perspectives the more they rally round to murder you

Hey, that's a good point, I think James is right.
Think about it, it's the same in the Knots Landing forum. Every Knots fan KNOWS that KL is the best primetime soap ever made, we are aware of the extremely good quality the show had.
But Dynasty fans for example know (I hope they do) that the show was utter crap so they get all defensive all the time. Same with Falcon Crest
Then there's Dallas and even the die-hard fans must know that the show had extreme flaws like the later seasons for example and the Bobby-in the shower thing.
And Sue Ellen fans simply must know that Linda Gray never had one decent hair cut during the shows run, that they put her into terrible clothes all the time and that her make-up was horrible and made her look old. I am getting off - off topic

[sunshineboyuk]

No you're on topic babe , it's really important to bash Sue Ellen fans because they deserve it for completely distorting the character and the entire show. It totally amazes and frankly scares me silly that such large numbers of Dallas fans are in complete denial and cuckoo land about the show they claim to understand and love . Falcon Crest forum fans are just too funny for words, they cling on to trivia because the show offers so little substance. In one attempt to give the show some meat they began discussing what type of brick work were in Chase and Maggie's house ..... cardboard bricks I imagine.

It's great to love crap shows - I adore The Colby's - but you have to understand that your a fan of rubbish . Garbage. Trash . Waste. Sewage. Slop. But it isn't acceptable to love Buffy . That is just wrong. Wrongness. Unaceptablilty. Against nature. Nature defiled. Defiler of naturalness. Murder of rightness. Slaying of Correctness. Massacre of Morality . Genocide of Good. Apolocolypse of All that is Holy.



For further information on why it is correct to Hate Buffy pls visist the following links...

http://groups.msn.com/buffysgrave/buffyfans.msnw

http://www.quibbling.net/wparchives/...ffy-die-again/

[Christine]

Okay, the first link actually takes you to someone's post who is all in praise for the show.

The second and third link:

OK, I wasn’t going to say anything, because I have many friends have a rather fanatical devotion to the show and I don’t want them to feel like I’m belittling them for their entertainment tastes. Heaven knows my tastes are weird enough. But this is my blog, and I just need to get this out of my system.

I hate Buffy.
I hate Buffy.
I hate Buffy.

I am relieved beyond words that Whedon is finally bringing an end to the series based on a movie that should never have been made. Eventually, my friends will develop new hobbies and will stop trying to recruit me for “Once More, With Feeling” singalongs. Eventually, I was going to run out of graceful and subtle ways to decline.

I tried to get into the show. I really did. Many of my friends, who are intelligent people whose opinions I respect, loved the show and couldn’t say enough about it.

But every time I tried to watch it, I would walk away feeling like I had lost brain cells. I can’t take a character named “Buffy” seriously. I would stare at my TV, wondering how a person Buffy’s age could be so completely unaware of the way the world works. I wondered how Joss Whedon could expect me to take him seriously as a writer when he fell back on the “she was dead but we brought her back to life” gimmick TWICE. And what was up with the lame “Buffy was killed by magic, so we can bring her back” explanation? Can you say “cop-out?”

It could just be that my expectations were too high. I tuned in to see what everyone was raving about, and when it didn’t seem rave-worthy to me, perhaps its failings were magnified in my mind. I don’t know.

Anyway, my contempt for this show is difficult to fully articulate, and I think I’ll sleep better at nights once it’s finally over.

[Christine]

At first I thought that Sunny must have written this himself but then I realized it's someone without brain cells and Sunny has lots of them.

"I can't take a character named Buffy seriously"

Well, every die hard fan knows that Joss Whedon came up with that silly name on purpose.
And not only that, he also added "The Vampire Slayer" to it which sounds even more campy.
I love Joss, he's a genius.
Not everyone would dare to do something like this.

Buffy was brought back to life twice?
Give me a break (idiot you, you from another site who will never see that I just said that )

The first time she "dies" it's not a real death, she "only" stopped breathing for a while and Xander manages to bring her back by performing CPR.
Something that Pam Anderson used to do all the time and no-one ever complained then.

Her real death - I thought it was beautiful. The death scene itself and the way she was brought back. Beautiful and I love it, it was perfect. Especially the aftermath, all her suicidal and dark feelings that led her to have hard core sex with Spike.
Briliant stuff

[Canon]

And Sue Ellen fans simply must know that Linda Gray never had one decent hair cut during the shows run, that they put her into terrible clothes all the time and that her make-up was horrible and made her look old.

No you're on topic babe , it's really important to bash Sue Ellen fans because they deserve it for completely distorting the character and the entire show.

If you two go missing then I'll know what has happened or rather who was behind it

[sunshineboyuk]

Dont joke about that ! Those guys are actually insane .They really are ...

[JACKY93]

Sadly it is true Jacky, Id find you a link to something for it to be explained but the whole thing makes me so angry that I better not.

THAT REALLY CHANGES MY OPIOIN ON THE SHOW (PAUSE)
YEAH RIGHT LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOL

[sunshineboyuk]

Any news on Charismaticness being Wonder Woman ?

She fails to realise she already IS Wonder Woman , that is why they need to give her this job because she is a wonder already... I want to see the Charismaticness fighting for her rights in her satin tights , I want to see her bring us out from under ...

[sunshineboyuk]

Will Cordy Wake Up?
Now that Angelus and Co. have assumed control of Wolfram & Hart on Angel, we suggest they use their new seat of power to solve the show's biggest mystery: What the heck happened to Charisma Carpenter and her alter ego Cordelia? Carpenter — a former Buffy cast member who, like David Boreanaz, has been with the show since its inception — went off to have a baby last season and hasn't been heard from since. (Cordy remains in a coma on the show.) Making matters more murky, a new Angel cast list makes no mention of the actress. The WB and 20th Century Fox have been cagey about the omission, and numerous attempts to make contact with Carpenter's agent have proven unsuccessful. So, what's a journalist to do? Go straight to the big boss himself, Joss Whedon.

TV Guide Online: Why was Charisma's name removed from next season's cast list?

Joss Whedon: Mainly because we felt like we had taken that story — just like Buffy for seven years — about as far as it could go. The Angel/Cordelia [love story] had gone pretty much as far as we wanted to take it. Their romance was definitely not a popular move on our part, and I think with most fans. It just seemed like it was time because we were revamping the show, and then paring it down... it just seemed like a good time for certain people to move on. Not completely, obviously. I'm hoping that we'll get Charisma to do some episodes as Cordelia sometime during the year. She's a new mother, so, like Sarah [Michelle Gellar], I'm waiting to hear what her schedule is like. But it just seemed creatively like... I once said that I finally got to tell the story of Buffy that I tried to tell in the movie, and I did it with Cordelia. Which was the story of someone who was completely ditzy and self-involved becoming kind of heroic. But the way the series was different from the movie was that I didn't know where you go from there. So, I felt like we spent seven years playing that very arc, and it had played. Like Buffy itself, it's time to look at something new.

TVGO: Isn't that a disservice to fans who invested all those years in the character and her redemption? It seems an odd thing to do to the show's leading lady.

That's a fluctuating concept, the leading lady thing. And it is a little odd. Some choices are ultimately kind of controversial about who stays and who goes and who we focus on. But obviously, we had to have her out of a bunch of episodes toward the end of the year because she was having a baby... so what we had [leading] up to it wasn't a dynamic I wanted to play out that much. The fact is, this is not the end — unless Charisma herself says, "You know what? I don't feel like doing any recurring episodes." But when you have an increasingly large ensemble week-by-week, and you come in in your [fifth] year kind of having to revamp the show and trim the budget and also think creatively, "How am I going to service all of these people?," sometimes the people who have been around the longest, you've done the most with them.

TVGO: Some are speculating that she was a casualty of James Marsters's cross over as Spike next season. Like, there wasn't enough money in the budget to pay for them both, so she got the boot.

That's a hell of a thing to lay on James. It was a creative decision that we made before Spike came over to the show, and like I said, I don't intend to leave Cordelia in a coma for the rest of the Buffyverse. But the creative decision to have the character step down happened long before negotiations with James [started]. It should not be laid at his feet.

TVGO: Were things left on good terms with Charisma?

Yeah, but that's also stuff between us and not stuff that I would talk about in an interview.

[Canon]

Weird little man not you Sunny Whedon This is from that summer when Whedon was out doing press for Season 5 but the only thing everyone was interested in was what was going on with Charisma. Ive read interviews where he has got so frustrated that he refuses to talk further on the matter. I think its fair to say he completely misjudged it, he didnt get the leading lady comment and from the interviews you can see he never expected the backlash the whole thing received.

[Canon]

Any news on Charismaticness being Wonder Woman ?

She fails to realise she already IS Wonder Woman , that is why they need to give her this job because she is a wonder already... I want to see the Charismaticness fighting for her rights in her satin tights , I want to see her bring us out from under ...

Well Joss has been dumped from WW now so who knows. I think it lessens her chances but a lot of people think it gives her more of a chance which I find strange.

Stranger things have happened, a chick from EE has been cast as the new Bionic Woman which is hilarious considering her acting. Which the makers obviously did.

[sunshineboyuk]

Yeah it's bizzare in the extreme , unless they've given her bionic acting abilities.... maybe they don't realise she's absolutely awful , maybe they think cos she's english she can act

I think it's always difficult for producers when they trim the cast... I can see it from their point of view trying to keep the show fresh and moving on and save money.... I get the point that he felt Cordy was done in terms of arc and story .... The Fred / Illyria arc was genius and could have happened a lot earlier in the season but apart from that i loved season 5 .... The Charistmaticness was core and central to Angel and yet the show did work without her , albeit it in a new setting with a revamped premise .... Producers think everyone is expendable and the debate will continue because it's a tricky balance they have to achieve ...... I am NOT afan of that decision to axe the Charismaticness from our screens , he should be done for crimes against humanity But I understand it ,intellectually , from a producers point of view ... and I do think Cordy's arc was complete... but it was really the way it was resolved that was the issue , leaving her in limbo , that was a huge mistake ...

I am surprised the reaction to the Angel Cordy romance was negative I loved all that , keep them apart yes , but make it central , it really worked for me .... But then , what doesn't work about this amazing show ? It's all too good for television , it's just the brilliantness we need in life , its the best show ever made , ever .... apart from Little House On The Prarie which was obviously better than Angel.

[Canon]

I think it's always difficult for producers when they trim the cast... I can see it from their point of view trying to keep the show fresh and moving on and save money.... I get the point that he felt Cordy was done in terms of arc and story .... The Fred / Illyria arc was genius and could have happened a lot earlier in the season but apart from that i loved season 5 .... The Charistmaticness was core and central to Angel and yet the show did work without her , albeit it in a new setting with a revamped premise .... Producers think everyone is expendable and the debate will continue because it's a tricky balance they have to achieve ...... I am NOT afan of that decision to axe the Charismaticness from our screens , he should be done for crimes against humanity But I understand it ,intellectually , from a producers point of view ... and I do think Cordy's arc was complete... but it was really the way it was resolved that was the issue , leaving her in limbo , that was a huge mistake ...

I agree & disagree with that. I agree Cordy had come full circle but I dont think that is why she was written out. S4 wasnt very popular among viewers and especially not with the WB - we look at the show as entertainment but it was a business and in order for it to survive it had to change for the WB. They planned a fresh start with S5 which is what happened but first they had to tie up loose ends. By the end of S4 Cordy & Connor were the two most complicated characters in the show and were linked to the heavy arc of S4 which is why neither Charisma or Vincent were brought back. To have something new in S5 they would have to get away from the events of S4...even though I love "You're Welcome" they did skim over a hell of lot regarding what Cordy had just been through.

And if it had been about a budget then they kind of defeated the purpose when they brought over James Marsters. I doubt he took a pay cut.

I am surprised the reaction to the Angel Cordy romance was negative I loved all that , keep them apart yes , but make it central , it really worked for me.

I wouldnt pay too much attention to that, for something that wasnt popular among them they spent the best part of 3 seasons dwelling on it. You only have to type Angel & Cordy into google to see that its huge, the whole best friends who had been through an amazing journey together and then fall in love wasnt lost on everyone.

You only have to watch S5 of Buffy to see what community of the fans Joss listens to.

[sunshineboyuk]

even though I love "You're Welcome" they did skim over a hell of lot regarding what Cordy had just been through


Yes ! That is the sticking point , yes....

[Spike]

I didn't know Pamela Anderson brought Tommy Lee back to life via CPR, OHHHHHH! So sorry. And I never watched that, honest.
Cordelia Chase should have never left Angel. Just watched "Darla" and when Angel says how he has to face the guilt--and let's face it, Angel is nothing without the brooding thing--Cordelia says, "You're not alone." And Angel looks at her with a mix of sadness and appreciation. But he keeps looking at her as Wesley talks on. That was a pivotal moment.
For instance why did Angel start caressing and sniffing Cordelia's hair after his encounter with Darla in the converted convent? He says he is confused about all of it. Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Ok, I will stop. Should do another post about S2 of Angel.
And Sunny, Knots Landing sucks ass! I am that confident. Sorry, for the profanity...what am I saying? I love the profanity!!