Obama is not black- The media needs to stop.

[abbylexis]

Would the media stop referring to Obama as African American or black. I'm guilty of that too.

Obama is biracial. He is half black, half white, Symbolically, he actually represents both blacks and whites.

By continuing to refer to Obama as being black, it does nothing but reinforce that old stigma of the "one drup rule" in America, that you're considered black if you have 0.0000001or higher percent of black descent. You're not white pure enough, if you have one tiddybit of black blood running through your vein.

I occassionely attend Biracial get together when I'm in NY of people of mixed decents that get together and just hang out and talk, "not as a racial divide kinda way" but started as some sort therapy to boost self-esteem for those who have issues being mixed, especially younger ones.

And one thing that was big in the 2000 census was the fact that there was not recognition of mixed people, basically it came down to you choosing a part of you over another. It's been an ongoing debate.

When I was in France, if you're biracial, you are considered biracial. So though, I've identifed more with blacks than whites, I've always seen myself as a MUT, never as black or white and it is evidenced when I look at the mirror. But when I came to the US, my black friends saw me as a sell out whenever I would embrace my white heritage. I've seen it, most people that are biracial mixed with white, there's a stigma from both whites and whichever minority group, if they choose to embrace their white heritage over their minority heritage. I know a girl who's father is Irish and mother is black. Whenever she claims to be Irish, blacks think that she's a sell out, whites don't think that she's a "true Irish" same with those who are mixed with whites and Asians. A girl on America's Next Top Model- season 2, April was half Japanese and Half White. She was "criticized" for embracing her white side in that she hated herself.

It happens all the time even in Hollywood. Halle Berry is biracial but she considers herself black even though she was raised by a white mother like Obama and the world considers her black. It's funny because in their case, their black parent ran out on them but they choose to identify more with their black heritage. Usually, in biracial cases, the kids would identify more with the parent that raised him/her if one of the parent ran out on them which there's a lot of cases of. In my case, my white father ran out, in a way could explain why I would relate more to blacks than whites. But in many cases NOT ALL, where it's a white single mother raising a kid fathered by a black absentee father, the kids tend to embrace their black side even more. Again, I'm speaking from observation and stuff i see in my own circle.

As cheesy as it may sound, Obama is biracial and as much as he's been labelled as an "Inspiration" to everyone, to many biracial people I know, he actually is an illustration of the strenghts of coming from two backgrounds.
I am sure Obama probably considers himself black.

But let's recognize him for what he is, not black, not white, biracial. Race shouldn't matter, but in Obama's case, and just like in real life it does whether we admit it or not it is, otherwise, people wouldn't consider his winning in IOWA a turning point in American history. If Obama was white, his winning in IOWA wouldn't have been accentuated and exploited in the media.

But the symbolic strenght of Obama is like Halle Berry said in Queen. He's not black, He's not white. He's the little guy in between. It's symbolic because one of America's tragedy has been the racial baggage between blacks and white. There's something biblical about Obama (okay, I'm going too far), that he's is both. He is black, He is white. Like Jesus was Spirit and Human.

I'm fantasizing by saying this I know. But in a weird way, if Obama was to win, he could be the tool that could unite America's racial divide (I'm exaggerating), but the point is that he is as much black as he is white. Both black and white can claim him as being of their own.

[Sonya in Tx]

Great point Abby.

The same criticism was lobbed at Tiger Woods when he embraced both his black and Thai side of his racial makeup.

The press is even more vicious now that he is married to a Swedish model.

[Mayor Gregory]

should be totally irrelevant, should be quality of the candidate that matters
....and in my opinion it means he's a Helluva lot better than Hillary :)

[PT Freakin' G]

I am half-Hispanic, half-white, and raised by my white mother - yet all of my official documents say I'm Hispanic.

I think anyone who looks at him can tell he is not fully black. It isn't a secret, and he hasn't presented it as such.

I don't see the problem.

His win wasn't "exploited" - that has such negative connotations. It is genuinely surprising that he would win a rural state when he has dark-colored skin.

I see nothing "Biblical" about being biracial -- it's just who some people are.

[abbylexis]

But the reality it isn't. Blacks who were supporting Obama are now changing their minds, at the idea of a black man becoming president become achievable.

Race shouldn't matter, but it does. That's why the reaction to Obama has been like this.

If Race didn't matter, there would have already been a black president. But sadly, race always matter. People are just being "Politically correct" about how they handling it.

[abbylexis]

I am half-Hispanic, half-white, and raised by my white mother - yet all of my official documents say I'm Hispanic.

I think anyone who looks at him can tell he is not fully black. It isn't a secret, and he hasn't presented it as such.

I don't see the problem.

His win wasn't "exploited" - that has such negative connotations. It is genuinely surprising that he would win a rural state when he has dark-colored skin.

I see nothing "Biblical" about being biracial -- it's just who some people are.

It was supposed to be an illustration, the biblical part. To everyone, mainly the media, Obama is black. Even if he's light skinned, he's easily identified as being black.

By exploited, I mean, that they keep mentioning the fact that he's the first black.....

read my post again.

[PT Freakin' G]

They should keep mentioning that he's black - he would be the first black President. It's groundbreaking and worth emphasis. It really shows how far the nation has evolved to not kill a black man or a woman who is running for President.

His race is pretty convenient - it's a great gimmick to get votes, and he naturally has it.

[jen.n]

As with all politicians, Obama is whatever you want him to be :p

[mztx71]

I can't believe his skin colour could sway some voters one way or the other, it's amazing in this day and age that it's still a factor! It's the calibre of the man or woman that counts and what he/she stands for!

[PT Freakin' G]

I believe many would vote for Obama just because he's black - and that many would vote for Clinton because she's female. It's no different than voting for someone simply because they are the former governor of your state.

[Sonya in Tx]

I can't believe his skin colour could sway some voters one way or the other, it's amazing in this day and age that it's still a factor! It's the calibre of the man or woman that counts and what he/she stands for!

It's the same way with Hillary being a woman. I live in Texas and there's a huge group of men who don't want her because she is a female.

We have a long way to go in this country...

[jen.n]

I can't believe his skin colour could sway some voters one way or the other, it's amazing in this day and age that it's still a factor! It's the calibre of the man or woman that counts and what he/she stands for!

Ideally, that would be how we get to a female or non-white President. Having someone non-white and/or non-male as President, would be definitive "proof" that we've reached the stage that skin color and sex aren't barriers.

People who like to put the cart before the horse, end up wanting to elect anyone that is non-white and/or non-male regardless of message, to get there.

[CarlD]

The black people I know consider him (and ALL white black mixed people) to be black.

[abbylexis]

They should keep mentioning that he's black - he would be the first black President. It's groundbreaking and worth emphasis. It really shows how far the nation has evolved to not kill a black man or a woman who is running for President.

His race is pretty convenient - it's a great gimmick to get votes, and he naturally has it.

But biologically, he's not black. the reason we automatically consider him black is because of that stupid law dating back since the 1800's that says that you can't be white, if it's not a 100%.

As for blacks voting for the black guy, women voting for the woman.

That's the other side of heterogenous societies. It's natural to root for you own. If whites were the minority in the USA, the same thing would be happening.

Ideally, you don't vote based on Gender, Race ct... but Kennedy for instance won because of his appeal. He had the pregnant wife, he was very attractive.

Those who heard the debate on the radio with Nixon, said that Nixon was better. Those who watched it on TV, said that Kennedy was better.

Visual power is deep.

Ideally, you vote for the best qualifications, but it's something natural to root for one of your own of if you the only white or black in a setting with where another race is pre-dominant, you'll feel more comfortable seeing another one of your own.

That's the problem with being biracial, I WON'T SPEAK FOR ALL BIRACIAL. But in Many cases I've seen including mine NOt ALL, the struggles lies in finding where you belong because the world is all about everything being in BOXES and you're an expection not the rule.

[jen.n]

If you knew nothing about who he was, and saw him for the first time in a store or on the street, what would you think he was???

[Mayor Gregory]

If you knew nothing about who he was,
and saw him for the first time in a store or on the street,
what would you think he was???

... a used car salesman :wiggle:

[Garrison]

The thing is though... he self identifies as whatever he wants to be thought of as. He self identifies as black from what I've seen so I don't understand your issue with calling him what he wants to be called.

[abbylexis]

Just like Halle Berry identifies herself as a black woman and of course, I've got no problem with it. I know many biracial who identify themselves as black.

But the question is what has led them (Halle Berry, Obama and many other biracial) to choose to identify themslves with one race usually if they're mixed with white, the minority race over another? Could the way the American system has classified Race have to do with it, considering that he grew more with his white family than his black family, just like Halle Berry.

It could be or it could not be.

[Garrison]

Perhaps because the color of his skin led him to identify more strongly with African American leaders and struggles because to the naked eye he's just as black as anyone else and likely suffered similar struggles to any other African American, perhaps more due to his name and his mother being white.

[jen.n]

I had a classmate who was 1/8 black and looked completely white, yet she always categorized herself as black and said she was black. It really annoyed me for some reason. Obama looks black to me, so it's never bothered me.

[abbylexis]

I see your point Garrison about the color of the skin. Obama looks more black than white. My mother's brother looks like your average white person and automatically everyone assumes that he's white and of course, if he says that he's black, people look at him funny.


Now, What would the popular reaction be If Obama said that he was white? That would be interesting to see. The point is that people easily accept him as black. But I'm curious to know what reaction would be if Obama said that I'm not African American, I'm white. I could be wrong, but what I think would happen again speaking from my experience is that blacks would call a sell out, and whites would laugh it out with ridicule. Again I could be wrong

[abbylexis]

I had a classmate who was 1/8 black and looked completely white, yet she always categorized herself as black and said she was black. It really annoyed me for some reason. Obama looks black to me, so it's never bothered me.


Interesting point about skin shades. The choice of race tends to always be rooted in which race you look more like. and my point is that ideally, if you're biracial, it doesn't have to come to choosing race, but embracing both. But society rules, structures brings you to the point of choice. You then choose the race of the skin you ressemble more which is why people would be more shocked if Obama said he was white and you jen was annoyed that your friend said that she was black. According to the rules, she would have to check the black box. There was a movement to get a biracial box during the census in 2000.


I'm 1/4 black and my skin is more slighter lighter than Obama like Justin Guarini from American Idol. My mom is 1/2 black but looks black while her brother looks white.

Victoria Rowell from YR is biracial and her daughter looks like your average white girl, Her daughter described the shock her friends had when they saw her mother. I've had similar episodes. "Guys, this is my mother", and they politely try to act normal, but have thousands of questions running through their mad. It's very funny to watch.

[Garrison]

If Obama said he was white his candidacy would die. He's not a fool, the NAACP is in the Democrats pocket, he knows he has the black vote sealed up and that would offend the entire world. Now if he said something like "I'm an African American and a white American... I've seen this country from both sides, etc" that would be different.


This whole thread reminds me of the Very Special Episode of The Jefferson's where their interracial neighbours daughter is jealous that the son can pass as white and she can't.

[abbylexis]

Yes, I love that Jeffersons episode and the scene where the Jefferson's Son always shows off his mother. That was the case with my mother and her brother. Not that she got mad that he was more white, but she for instance has a different worldview in terms of race from her experience that her brother never experienced or wasn't aware/conscious of because when he stepped out of the house, he was another white man in a predominantly white society.

[BJR]

Great point Abby.

The same criticism was lobbed at Tiger Woods when he embraced both his black and Thai side of his racial makeup.

The press is even more vicious now that he is married to a Swedish model.



I am half-Hispanic, half-white, and raised by my white mother - yet all of my official documents say I'm Hispanic.


This is fundamentally a racist outlook although it promotes equality. Even though we are more tolerant of other races I think we are still a predominantly racist culture. The belief in diversity is itself racist.



It's the same way with Hillary being a woman. I live in Texas and there's a huge group of men who don't want her because she is a female.

We have a long way to go in this country...

And I'm sure that there are women and men in this country who want her to be President just because she is a woman.

[BJR]

If Obama said he was white his candidacy would die. He's not a fool, the NAACP is in the Democrats pocket, he knows he has the black vote sealed up and that would offend the entire world. Now if he said something like "I'm an African American and a white American... I've seen this country from both sides, etc" that would be different.

That's what pisses me off.

I'm tired of these titles, "African-American", "Italian-American," etc. I thought that we were ALL Americans.

Multiculturalism has never worked. It ends up balkanizing a country when it doesn't mean too.

[CarlD]

I had a classmate who was 1/8 black and looked completely white, yet she always categorized herself as black and said she was black. It really annoyed me for some reason. Obama looks black to me, so it's never bothered me.

Many people do this for their advantage. Checking "black" on college entrance forms, etc.

[abbylexis]

"Leaving Obama asserting his blackness" out of the argument. Whether or not Obama asserted publicly that he's black. The fact that he's automatically labelled or thought of as a black man has a lot to do with the "1 drop rule" even though he's light skinned. Which is why I would think people like Halle Berry or Obama would identify as blacks even though they were brought up by the white side of their family.

The downfall of multiculturalism is all the race relations problems that exists when people of different cultures try to co-exist together. I mean try putting Dogs, Cats and Chicken in a cage.

I once questioned whether people were just better separated, people would get along better. Ex: in an all white neighborhood, when black family moves in, everyone is all welcoming, when lots of blacks begin moving it becomes a problems and whites leave, which is the scenario that gave birth to the suburbs. Homogenous societies don't deal with these issues. IMO, people more open minded to difference, when difference comes in a small dose, but when difference becomes the norm, people begin to feel threatned.

Northern Europans like Sweedish, Nordic, Finnish do not have to deal with multiculturalism or immigration. A black friend of mine did a trip to Far north of Europe and visited all these countries, the rural areas (Sweeden, Norway, Danmark) and found people more tolerant and open minded and very hospitable because there aren't that many blacks so people are very welcoming to that small dose of difference.

Contrast this to UK or France which has a huge immigration population from Africa, Asia and Carribbean and people have had it with the immigrants and that's where nationalism begins.

This is happening in the US, but the irony is that the US was born out of immigration.

But when you look at it, most of the tragedies in the world have to do with different types of people crossing each other and one type trying to be the master of the other type.

I usually laugh out loud when I hear Brits or French complain about immigration simply because "You reap what you sow", British, French and Spanish were imperial/colonial powers conquering the world and forcing their way of life to people who had a different way of life. Now, these people are invaded them in return since these countries serve as the model and they don't know where else to look for.

Slavery led to the migration of Africans to the Americas. The racial problems we have today, mainly between whites and blacks are rooted because a group of people (Africans) were forced to leave their own setting and live with another group of people (Europeans). This lead to the never conflict of black vs white. of all racial groups in the world, there isn't as much tension as there is between the black race and the white race.

But multi-culturalism doesn't have anything to do with race. Look at the genocides in Africa, due to tribalism such as Rwandaa, with the Hutus and Tusti at each other's throat or the Nigerian Biafran War in the 1960s. Colonialism re-divided the boundaries that were already established by the African tribes who lived separate of each other and this led to different tribes living together in the same country. When the African countries became independent, the tribes began and are still fighting for power. Colonial power turned tribes against each other for their own good. This happened in India too which led to the partition between India and Pakistan in 1947 as the struggle between the Hindus and Muslims intensified as to which group was going to rule what had been defined as British India. Prior to that, the Indian Region was made up of various separate kingdoms

Same thing with religion. wars that resulted from religion were usually because people of one religion were trying to force their views to people of other religions.

Would the world have been a better place had there not been imperialism, colonialism, slavery, war ect... Again, the white man isn't the only one to blame for imperialism. Imperialism can be traced back to biblical times with the Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Ethopians ect....

Would things have been better if people had remained separate and only interacted with different people on a smaller dose enough for them to like other types of people but not to get tired of them.

Even in everyday life it's the same thing. When you start to hang out with the same person constantly, you get tired and that's when conflict start. But when friends or lovers give each other a space, there's a renewed interest when they see each other.

Again, I'm not advocating, segregation. I'm just saying that most of the conflicts in world history has been because of some sort of intergration. Now what to do when you have country like USA that is multi-cultural. One guy on a CNN special was saying that he doesn't like forced intergration. But at the same time, wouldn't it be a better, if we tried to get along rather than segregate now that we all live together.

Take this example. You're a freshman in college and you meet your roomate who is your total opposite. You can try to ignore him and separate everything in the room and never talk to him. or isn't it better to try to get to know him, become friends with him, agree to share things with him. You have more to gain by befriending your roomate than ignoring him. That's the same thing multi-cultural societies should do. It's not politically incorrect to embrace diversity or push diversity. Wouldn't it make more sense if we all tried to mingle and get along now that we all live together in one same setting as different as we are.

[abbylexis]

That's what pisses me off.

I'm tired of these titles, "African-American", "Italian-American," etc. I thought that we were ALL Americans.

Multiculturalism has never worked. It ends up balkanizing a country when it doesn't mean too.

That's the assimilation argument, the opposite of the multi-culturalism/diversity argument. But assimilation leads to denial

But that's the problem, by doing this, it leads to some sort of denial. America was and is not a homogenous society like let's say Kenya, China or Sweeden.

So it's hard trying to make it one by saying that we're all Americans.

Both the multi-culturalism argument and the assimilation argument are flawed.

The solution is to recognize that we're all different and embrace our differences, while at the same time recognizing that we all the same because we are the humankinds.

[Mojo]

The thing is though... he self identifies as whatever he wants to be thought of as. He self identifies as black from what I've seen so I don't understand your issue with calling him what he wants to be called.

yep. agree.

[Jack]

I don't care if he was green ... if I were a democrat I would vote for the guy

[BJR]

I don't care if he was green ... if I were a democrat I would vote for the guy

.....but...... you pretty much are a Democrat.......


You love Abraham Lincoln. You don't think FDR was an enemy of the United States. You hate Joseph McCarthy. You love the Federal Reserve System, the fifth plank of the communist manifesto. You support Woodrow Wilson's interventionist foreign policy. While you've said that you don't like the IRS, you're not necessarily against it. And I don't hear you calling for the abolishment of Social Security and Medicare.

[Jack]

.....but...... you pretty much are a Democrat.......


You love Abraham Lincoln. You don't think FDR was an enemy of the United States. You hate Joseph McCarthy. You love the Federal Reserve System, the fifth plank of the communist manifesto. You support Woodrow Wilson's interventionist foreign policy. While you've said that you don't like the IRS, you're not necessarily against it. And I don't hear you calling for the abolishment of Social Security and Medicare.

are we going to have debate or something?

[BJR]

are we going to have debate or something?

Well, we could but it's never worked out on your end.

I'd have a more satisfying debate with Marky. All you do is chuckle, snicker, mock, obfuscate, and run away.

[Jack]

lets see what you are


you think slavery is a state's right
you believe in the words of traitor Erza Pound
you are an anti-semite
you think the federal reserve is more dangerous than Osama Bin Laden
you believe that Rudy Giuliani took part in a conspiracy to kill 3000 Americans on 9.11
you think there is a "new world order" designed to take over the world
you are a paranoid loser who fights this "new world order" by posting on internet message boards
you think that anyone who is more successful than you is out to get you in some way

[CarlD]

Whatever he is, his train has left the station, and Hillary and John Edwards are choking on his dust !!!!!! :)

[fireweaver]

It's the same way with Hillary being a woman. I live in Texas and there's a huge group of men who don't want her because she is a female.

We have a long way to go in this country...

Another three or four centuries?