Are ther ANY decent American soaps?

[Droitwich Lloyd]

The only two were really Dallas and Dynasty,but even they can't come close to British fodder.
The problem with American soap is,too much sentiment,too little subtlety,far too much glamour with no real people,and the fact that Americans seem unable to laugh at themselves.
So Guys,what do you think,Blighty versus Uncle Sam? Na,it's not even a contest!

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

If you haven't seen them then how can you make that asumption? If it weren't from american daytime serials, there would be no Dallas, Dynasty, or even the British soaps. They've outlasted every other TV era for a reason. And yes, some soaps can make fun of themselves. I don't get why British people seem to have this snobbish view towards american soaps like theirs are just so good. IMO, there are good and bad in both. I'll give you a rundown of various soaps, past and present that you might like...

Serious Drama

Ryan's Hope - Currently airs on SOAPnet, originally was from 1975-1989. It's probably the most realistic soap I've EVER seen. It's about an Irish family, the Ryan's. And they deal with everyday problems, have everyday jobs, we see them going to college, etc. There's a real process and sense of community that I've never seen touched my ANY soap, daytime or primetime. The cast is mainly broadway stars so it's full of talented people. The headwriter/creator, Claire Labine is amazing and kept RH very character driven. From what I hear, it's a lot like Eastenders in the UK. For more info: http://www.geocities.com/ryanshope75/ The current storylines on SOAPnet are very relatable as well. Tom is dealing with being blind (via cancer) and they're showing how he adjusts to living this way; Johnny the Ryan patriarch is helping restore the Irish part of the family's farm, but is having trouble keeping funds; Jillian is recovering from a freak accident that caused her apartment to catch fire, kill her toddler and nearly kill her; Delia is raising her son for the first time and seeing how difficult being a mother is.

The Young and the Restless - I grew up on this show, but began watching regularly at the end of 2003. When it premiered in the 70s, it was considered untraditional, but now it's the most traditional soap on air. It's been #1 for over 15 years and since the beginning, they've kept pretty much the same writers which keeps the show consistant. THis is probably the only soap not to have a bad period.

Currently it's filled with talented actors and great, character driven storylines. Michelle Stafford, Eric Braeden, Melody Thomas Scott, Greg Rikaart and Christian LeBlanc are some of *the* best actors today. Better than anything in primetime.

Big storylines now are: Kevin is trying to overcome his past with an abusive father which led him to do some very bad things. People are having a difficult time accepting the new Kevin; Katherine, the 77 year old matriarch, recently overcame alcoholism and is battling her daughter who caused her husband/father to run away; Victoria, Victor and Nikki's daughter has returned to find her family still in shambles which is why she originally left. It's basicaly because of the family business; Drucilla is adjusting to a new job, helping her husband recover from a car accident and hiding her daughters paternity.

Guiding Light - This is the longest running TV show EVER. It premiered on radio in the 30s then moved to TV in 1952. In recent years, they've struggled through some TERRIBLE headwriters, but the current one has dramatically improved things. Cast members to look out for are Kim Zimmer, Ron Raines, Maureen Garrett and Gina Tognoni. Storylines include: Tammy found out her new boyfriend, JB, is her first cousin. He's trying to get back at his mother Reva for abandoning him which left him with VERY abusive parents. The acting in this storyline is amazing. In other parts Cassie (Reva's sister, Tammy's mother) is upset with Reva for defending her son for knowingly committing incest with her daughter. She's also dealing with an abusive (not to her) husband.

Campy Soaps

Passions - This soap is incredibly underrated. In the two years it's been amazing. PSNS is a supernatural, over the top soap in the vein of Desperate Housewives in that it mixes great drama with comedy. One of it's biggest stars was an orangatang named Precious, lol. Sounds terrible, but it made for some hilarious plots. Precious was an alcoholic nurse with many speeding tickets. Also there are Tabitha played by fabulous Brit Juliet Mills and Mrs. Wallace played by Kathleen Noone of Knots Landing fame.

The more serious storylines include Katherine being raped by her former husband, Alistar who serves as the shows villian. Alistar is also attempting to kill his daughter Sheridan for having an interacial relationship with the son of the man who stole his wife. Also Whitney is dealing with giving her son (with her half brother) up for adoption because she doesn't want him to live with the stigma of incest. Of course she can't tell anyone this so everyone is confused about why she'd give up her baby.

All in all, PSNS is a great soap which combines traditional values with supernatural fluff.

The Bold and the Beautiful - This is definitely the new DYNASTY. With the cast they have, it has the potential to be an amazing soap, but the writer just repeats the same things over and over again. He focuses on a couple characters and they never keep the good finds they get. Currently Taylor is coming back from the dead even though we saw her put into the ground. It's one of those so bad it's watchable type things.

Other Decent Soaps

One Life To Live - In a month or two, this soap will probably be back on top. It had a rough last year due to outside interference from the higher ups. Right now it's bouncing back slowly but surely. Blair's rape storyline and Viki's heart transplant earned both actresses Daytime Emmy nominations which were much deserved.

As the World Turns - This actually deserves to be in the Serious category, but it's only now getting really good. It's always been decent, but only recently is it blowing me out of the water. They're finally focusing on family drama and have some damn good actors.

If you ever get a chance to see any of these soaps, I highly recommend it. Don't listen to the haters, watch for yourself and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. Wost.org has opening credits for many of the soaps as well as full episodes if you wanted to see. Right now, I'd recommend these....

Passions - The First Two Episodes (http://www.wost.org/bonus9.html)
The Young and the Restless - 1991 Episode (http://www.wost.org/bonus12.html)
15 Minute Gudiing Light Episode From 1951 (http://www.wost.org/bonus14.html)
The Loving Murders (Late 90s) (http://www.wost.org/bonus30.html)
1970 Love Is A Many Splendored Thing with Donna Mills from Knots Landing (http://www.wost.org/bonus29.html)

So there you have various different eras of US soaps to check out and I can assure you that all episodes are good. Out of these Passions is campy, Y&R is traditional, GL is classic, Loving is very dramatic and creepy and Love is a traditional classic soap. Enjoy! :)

[Eddie Ewing]

"The only two were really Dallas and Dynasty,but even they can't come close to British fodder."

Erm, yes they do.They pass them out.

[Mike]

Ive tried watching some American daytime soaps but they just dont do it for me, the only reason they've been popular here in the UK is for their comedy value :D
The plots move far too slowly, people talk to themselves and everyone looks so plastic and unreal, not for me im afraid.

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

That's generalizing it Mike. Not all US soaps look like The Bold and the Beautiful and not all Uk soaps look like Footballers Wives.

Also, not all move slowly. One Life To Live, General Hospital, As the World Turns, Port Charles and The Young and the Restless are all fast paced.

As for people taking to themselves, this is not true for most. The only soaps where people talk to themselves a lot are Passions and Days, but this is used instead of doing voiceovers everytime people have a thought. When doing five shows a week, this is more cost effective for some.

And on the whole, ATWT, GL, OLTL and Y&R have very normal looking casts. OLTL has characters of every shape, size and color. Same with Y&R and GL. Also, you can't name one show in the US that doesn't have an attractive cast. This is a part of American culture, who wants to see a show full of ugly people? This is just how it is.

[Eddie Ewing]

Well let's take "Sunset Beach" for example.

That is just a terrible show.The acting is desperate.I really don't know where they found the actors but I'm fully sure they were all just outta school.Poort things.I feel sorry for both the cast and crew.

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

I agree with you, Sunset Beach is a mess which is mainly why it was cancelled. But Sunset Beach is also nothing like the 9 current soaps on air and the acting on the NBC soaps has been substandard for years.

The thing is, overseas, yall always get the bad US soaps mainly because like Mike said, yall like the comedy value. This is why yall get B&B, SuBe, Days and GH as opposed to Y&R which could put all your soaps to shame.

Anyway, the acting on NBC soaps is pretty mediocre and is especially awful on Days of Our Lives, but that does not reflect the high quality of the CBS soaps and even the ABC ones. NBC used to be really good up until the 80s, then they went for a really camp deal that is very hit or miss.

[Wendell2002]

Yes, Sunset Beach sucks, that's without question. But isn't this show somehow related to Spelling? At least, it had his son on it, which is reason enough for it to suck.

Personally, I consider Six Feet Under and Sopranos to be soap operas. I know I am not the only one, I've read very funny article on Salon about how Sopranos is soap opera with violence, so male viewers won't feel unmanly for watching it (not that men shouldn't enjoy soaps, it's silly stereotype). But in the end the very same males admire Sopranos because in the end, it's all about family (very soapish, huh?). Oz was violent soap opera as well. Soap for me is something which focuses on relationship first and foremost. You can't say that neither of those are any good.

Yes, and I haven't seen it, but can't believe none of you talked about Knots. For shame! :D

I think the thing with American TV is, sometimes it sucks very badly and sometimes it's just great. No wonder, huge country with lost of channels and original programming. I do believe that often American TV leads the way. Of course, there are only few gems in ANY medium, and TV is not an exception.

[Mike]

Chris i loved the big nightime soaps of the 80s, so when the UK started to show some of the US daytime soaps, due to the popularity of the nightime ones, i suppose i was expecting the same standard but of course the daytime soaps were totally different and imo much more inferior probably due too their low budgets and the fact that they're shown 5 days a week in the US, so i geuss there's not a lot of time for rehersals or retakes etc during production.
Footballers Wives isnt classed as a soap here in the UK its a tv series, with only 9 episodes per year, and the new name for soaps is "continuing drama" but at the end of the day, a soap is a soap and there's good and bad everywhere i suppose :)

[James from London]

Also, you can't name one show in the US that doesn't have an attractive cast. This is a part of American culture, who wants to see a show full of ugly people? This is just how it is.

I think this might be a huge part of why US soaps, which are apparently about ordinary people, aren't taken as seriously over here, where there is less stigma about being average looking, or "ugly". I don't know for sure, but I suspect the reason Americans don't "want to see a show full of ugly people" is because Americans don't aspire to being ugly, and aspiration is everything in that society. This stems from the American Dream which states that everything is available if you have the money to pay for it (such as good looks, thinness, and eternal youth, via surgery, cosmetics and gym membership), and all the money you want is available so long as you work hard enough. Therefore, not being beautiful is equated with financial failure and moral weakness.


This is why yall get B&B, SuBe, Days and GH as opposed to Y&R which could put all your soaps to shame.

I remember watching YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS a few years ago when it was on UK Living, when Victor (I think), whom everyone believed was dead, was taken in by a blind country woman. Do they still do the thing of having two people standing opposite each other in a room having a long conversation without moving, and then you cut back to them an episode or two later, and they're still there, still talking but not moving, and no time has passed inbetween? I think we find that very strange, even surreal, over here. It's quite hypnotic though.

[Mike]

I remember watching YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS a few years ago when it was on UK Living, when Victor (I think), whom everyone believed was dead, was taken in by a blind country woman. Do they still do the thing of having two people standing opposite each other in a room having a long conversation without moving, and then you cut back to them an episode or two later, and they're still there, still talking but not moving, and no time has passed inbetween? I think we find that very strange, even surreal, over here. It's quite hypnotic though.

LOL Too funny :D

[Pamela Barnes]

They cant be any worse than what some of our soaps are becoming. But saying that Im so glad I dont think Us daytime is better than UK soaps like Corrie, that would equal having no awareness or taste.

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

Victor was persumed dead? I never knew that. Anyway, lol. No there aren't any scenes where people are just standing there for days on end. In most Y&R episodes you generally see a character in scenes with one person then later in the episode with another and then more characters pop up at the end to lead into the next episode. Basically pacing is very good here. Most of the US soaps will have say two or three characters in scenes together for the entire episode, but Y&R doesn't do that, when a character is on, it's to move the plot. Also to keep us from getting burned out, we don't have the same characters on day after day. They instead utilize their entire cast which is very refreshing.

You should check out the Loving episode I posted a link to. The pacing here is very good too.

[Toby]

SANTA BARBARA was shown over here in Britain during the day during the late 1980's. It was genuinely appalling.

[Droitwich Lloyd]

I love that from James about 'The American dream'!
America probably doesn't want to look at 'ugly' (and how do we perceive that?) people,'cos it's packed with 'em in real life!
I think the 'ugliest' thing about anyone is vanity and shallowness....
(Steady on about the gym membership though James,I earn my living in one).

[Romain]

Seriously, I'm neither American nor British but Y&R and B&B are shown in France so I'm familiar with them and since I've been living in the UK since October, I have had the opportunity of seeing Coronation Street, EastEnders and Emmerdale repeatedly. And I would say without hesitation that Brit soaps are much crappier than American ones.

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

Romain, nice to see another French Y&R viewer. There are quite a few fans there and Italy as well. There's even this huge Y&R fansite for the french fans.

Also, here in the US, the only UK soap available is Eastenders, which most consider to be crap now. Based on this I could say, all British soaps are crap, but I don't like to generalize things and via episodes of Corrie, Brookside and the aussie soaps Home & Away/Neighbours (both similar to US soaps), I can say that yall do have good soaps, Eastenders isn't one of them.

Yall just got screwed with the soaps yall got. Australia also has The Young and the Restless, and it's one of their most popular soaps as well. Why? Because it's an amazing soap that's better than even a lot of whats on primetime.

[Afton]

American daytime is just horrid. I can see why most of you would think it's crap. Unrealistic situations with one deminisional characters. We get Corrie here in Canada and one minute of that show in it's worst season ever beats all US daytime by a mile.

[James from London]

Over the years, I've watched SUNSET BEACH, SANTA BARBARA, YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS and BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL. YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS was definitely the most watchable and enjoyable, but it shared with the others the same air of artificiality: a lack of physical movement, actors with the same plasticky good looks and stylised delivery. They don't seem to speak or move or behave in the same recognisably human way that real people do, the way characters used to on BROOKSIDE and EASTENDERS in their prime, and the way characters on CORONATION STREET still do, or on shows like ER and THE SHIELD.

I suspect that style of daytime soap is unique to the US, as the Bollywood musical is to India, and perhaps one can only "get" it if you've been brought up in that culture.

[JT]

The only UK soap I've seen is "EastEnders" and it was quite crappy, I must say.

Chris, you happened to forget something....*snickers*

All My Children - in my eyes, the best television show ever. It is my story. I've been watching it for going on four years now, but it feels like I've been watching it since it premiered back on January 5, 1970. It's the soap that introduced us to Erica Kane Martin Brent Cudahy Chandler Montgomery Montgomery Chandler Marrick Marrick. It's given us so many things over the years. The first lesbian storyline, the first legal abortion, a groundbreaking AIDS story, interracial relationships, tornadoes, exploding jet skis. In its current state, it is remarkable. Day in and day out, we get outstanding performances from Susan Lucci, Alicia Minshew, Rebecca Budig, David Canary, Eva LaRue, Julia Barr, Alexa Havins, Michael E. Knight, Bobbie Eakes, Kelli Giddish, Vincent Irizarry, Walt Willey, Thorsten Kaye, James Scott, Leven Rambin, Michael B. Jordan, and a host of others. The storylines are realistic and grounded in family traditions and history. Current storylines include Krystal Carey's stay behind bars for keeping a baby from its mother; Di Kirby posing as Dixie Martin, the thought to be dead wife of Tad Martin; Kendall Hart breaking up with her lover Ethan Cambias for swearing on their love to a lie; the upcoming nuptials of longtime lovers (18 years and counting) Erica Kane and Jack Montgomery; Maria Grey's temptation to lover Zach Slater just weeks after her husband was murdered; the repurcussions of Ryan Lavery having to shoot his brother to death in self-defense; and soon, a very sad story dealing with the death of Phoebe English Tyler Wallingford Matthews Wallingford, one of the show's founding characters, due to the real-life death of actress Ruth Warrick.

AMC doesn't air much in the UK simply because the British seem to refuse to acknowledge the US soaps that are indeed miles and miles and miles and miles (or in this case, kilometers and kilometers and kilometers and kilometers) ahead of EastEnders or any other Brit creation.

And yes, AMC's cast is beautiful. The fact that Brit's pride themselves on having 'ugly' people on their soaps is ridiculous. When someone 'ugly' joins AMC, I always find something in them that makes them beautiful.

"Oh wow, well we have ugly people on our soaps so there!" It really is a bunch of crap.

And if I have to read that Coronation Street is the longest-running serial in the history of broadcasting, I will seriously blow a gasket. It is NOT. The Guiding Light beats it by 23 years, and the UK radio soap The Archers beats it by ten years and As the World Turns beats it by four years.

[Toby]

Over the years, I've watched SUNSET BEACH, SANTA BARBARA, YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS and BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL. YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS was definitely the most watchable and enjoyable, but it shared with the others the same air of artificiality: a lack of physical movement, actors with the same plasticky good looks and stylised delivery. They don't seem to speak or move or behave in the same recognisably human way that real people do, the way characters used to on BROOKSIDE and EASTENDERS in their prime, and the way characters on CORONATION STREET still do, or on shows like ER and THE SHIELD.

I suspect that style of daytime soap is unique to the US, as the Bollywood musical is to India, and perhaps one can only "get" it if you've been brought up in that culture.

Yes. I've watched SANTA BARBARA and SUNSET BEACH and hated them, even though the latter did have Lesley-Anne Down, Gordon Thomson and Kathleen Noone amongst its cast.

Since I haven't actually seen many of the US daytime soaps I will reserve judgement on them. I gather that they are produced on a very tight schedule with a limited budget rather like the Australian soaps e.g. PRISONER, THE YOUNG DOCTORS, SONS AND DAUGHTERS, NEIGHBOURS. And I hardly think that we Brits have the right to look down on US daytime soaps when we have produced the likes of CROSSROADS, TRIANGLE, MIRACLES TAKE LONGER, GEMS, TRAINER, ELDORADO, HOLBY CITY etc.

And as for the original point about American prime-time soaps, I'd sooner watch DALLAS, KNOTS LANDING, DYNASTY, THE COLBYS or FALCON CREST (even at their very worst) than CROSSROADS or indeed EASTENDERS in its current state any day.

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

The budgets aren't tight all around. It depends on a few things.

For instance, Passions is the lowest rated soap, but it has a bigger budget than most because it's very popular with young viewers which means more ad $$$. The Young and the Restless being the #1 soap has a very big budget which allows the stars to get huge salaries, lets them go on location regularly, have the best production values, big sets, etc.

One Life To Live, however, has a very small budget. It's like the forgotten soap because it's always having creative problems and currently they have a small studio and little budget.

As te World Turns, also a CBS soap, has a pretty good sized budget too. They have big sets including outdoor ones which include fullsize lakes, courtyards, etc. and it looks pretty good as well.

I highly recommend yall try out Dark Shadows which is out on DVD. It's a classic gothic soap from the 60s starring Joan Bennett. The writing, acting, etc. is great but the budget did get in the way at times. This is one show that has become popular outside of the soap fan base. I'm only two discs through the first set, but it's seriously a page turner. If I were greedy, I would watch the entire thing in one night. I can't stand to put it down. It's *that* good. For a soap it was relatively shortlived (66-71), but in those short years, the show had really come full circle and done everything they needed to do. Also because it was short there were very little recasts.

Currently 17 boxsets with 40 episode each have been released and it's region free so any country can play it.

Here's some info on the first collection:

With its alluring tales of Gothic mystery and supernatural intrigue, Dark Shadows became one of the most popular daytime series of all time. Since first airing on ABC-TV from 1966-71, Dark Shadows has earned the reputation of being one of the most unusual and enduring programs in television history. The character of Barnabas Collins, a guilt-ridden, 175-year-old vampire, brought the show tremendous success.
Released from his chained coffin after nearly 200 years, Barnabas Collins arrives at the Collinwood estate claiming to be a relative from England. Although noticing Barnabas's resemblance to his "ancestor" in the foyer portrait, the Collins family does not realize he is the same Barnabas who lived at Collinwood in the 18th century. As Barnabas moves into the Old House on the property, those around him are unaware of the horrors that will soon follow.

Contains: 40 complete, spine-tingling episodes. Bonuses: Special introductory Dark Shadows featurette and exclusive interviews with the actors. Starring: Joan Bennett, Jonathan Frid, Kathryn Leigh Scott, Louis Edmonds, Nancy Barrett, David Henesy, Clarice Blackburn, John Karlen, Mitchell Ryan, Dennis Patrick, Joel Crothers, David Ford, Dana Elcar, Robert Gerringer, and Alexandra Moltke. Black and white, approx. 15 hours.

[James from London]

AMC doesn't air much in the UK simply because the British seem to refuse to acknowledge the US soaps that are indeed miles and miles and miles and miles (or in this case, kilometers and kilometers and kilometers and kilometers) ahead of EastEnders or any other Brit creation.

Really? It's ahead of BRIDESHEAD REVISITED and UPSTAIRS, DOWNSTAIRS and Jimmy McGovern's CRACKER? Wow! What a profoundly amazing series ALL MY CHILDREN must be. I hope one today to be fortunate enough to see it.


The fact that Brit's pride themselves on having 'ugly' people on their soaps is ridiculous.

Well, I don't think the majority of British citizens exactly pride themselves on on having ugly people in soap operas. They probably don't even think about it very much. To us, it's simply the norm. For myself, I like the fact that the passions of a fat, ugly lump like Fred Elliot or the dreams and heartache of a scrawny little cleaner like Hilda Ogden (both CORONATION STREET characters) can be portrayed in such dramatic, touching and funny ways. There's something democratic about it. It's saying that all of us, regardless of age or appearance or financial status, have stories to tell, that we all matter. It's the essence of all great drama really: the ordinary made extraordinary. However, I don't think it behooves me to actually take pride from this as I am but a humble viewer, not a casting director.


And if I have to read that Coronation Street is the longest-running serial in the history of broadcasting, I will seriously blow a gasket. It is NOT. The Guiding Light beats it by 23 years, and the UK radio soap The Archers beats it by ten years and As the World Turns beats it by four years.

Congratulations.

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

Well, I don't think the majority of British citizens exactly pride themselves on on having ugly people in soap operas. They probably don't even think about it very much. To us, it's simply the norm. For myself, I like the fact that the passions of a fat, ugly lump like Fred Elliot or the dreams and heartache of a scrawny little cleaner like Hilda Ogden (both CORONATION STREET characters) can be portrayed in such dramatic, touching and funny ways. There's something democratic about it. It's saying that all of us, regardless of age or appearance or financial status, have stories to tell, that we all matter. It's the essence of all great drama really: the ordinary made extraordinary. However, I don't think it behooves me to actually take pride from this as I am but a humble viewer, not a casting director.

On American soaps, the older characters also have stories to tell and are often frontburner with the rest of them. At age 77, Jeanne Cooper is nominated for a Lead Actress Daytime Emmy this year. Last year she won a fricking Lifetime Achievement which generally means the actors career is over. Not for her, she's still getting frontburner work, and no, she isn't...beautiful. Lots of characters aren't beautiful. Men and women and of all ages. Just look at Jeanne for yourself...

http://www.clothesoffourback.org/2004auction/2004images/Jeanne-Cooper.jpg

Or Kathy Brier
http://us.ent4.yimg.com/tv.yahoo.com/images/he/photo/tv_pix/abc/one_life_to_live/_group_photos/kathy_brier2.jpg

Now I go to Eastenders website and see lots of stereotypical soap beauties, but I guess they're average since they're on a British soap? It's the same thing. There are all types of people on all soaps..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/images/backstage/cast/cast_images/kim_m/actor_sammitchell.jpg http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/images/eastenders/characters/mickey_m/mickey_actor.jpg

[JT]

On American soaps, the older characters also have stories to tell and are often frontburner with the rest of them. At age 77, Jeanne Cooper is nominated for a Lead Actress Daytime Emmy this year. Last year she won a fricking Lifetime Achievement which generally means the actors career is over. Not for her, she's still getting frontburner work, and no, she isn't...beautiful. Lots of characters aren't beautiful. Men and women and of all ages. Just look at Jeanne for yourself...

http://www.clothesoffourback.org/2004auction/2004images/Jeanne-Cooper.jpg

Or Kathy Brier
http://us.ent4.yimg.com/tv.yahoo.com/images/he/photo/tv_pix/abc/one_life_to_live/_group_photos/kathy_brier2.jpg

Now I go to Eastenders website and see lots of stereotypical soap beauties, but I guess they're average since they're on a British soap? It's the same thing. There are all types of people on all soaps..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/images/backstage/cast/cast_images/kim_m/actor_sammitchell.jpg http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/images/eastenders/characters/mickey_m/mickey_actor.jpg
Word.

And even if the people on US soaps are all beautiful...so WHAT!? Most of them can act very damn good and if they are extremely hot, that's just an added plus.

And if US soaps are too glamorous...SO WHAT!? Who came up with the idea that unreality and excess and greed and glamor and all of that is bad for a TV show? Why is portraying poor people, average people, ugly people so good? I don't understand it. It's all a matter of opinion.

Sorry. Keep your Rover's Returns and Queen Vics. I'd much rather have a stay at The Valley Inn or have a bite to eat at Gina Roma's.

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

But I'm seriously confused by the idea that American SOAPS are obsessed with beautiful people, but did this stop you from watching Dallas or Knots or Dynasty? Nope. Was it unrealistic there?

Also I can name loads of UK shows that have attractive casts. The Office, Coupling, Shameless (some), Eastenders, Monarch of the Glen, etc.

What is the big deal? Even if you look at all our film stars, they're ALL beautiful. Does this make Nicole Kidman or Joan Crawford any less of actors and do you not by their scenes because they're beautiful? I don't get it.

Why can every other medium get away with it but soaps are slagged off?

[James from London]

On American soaps, the older characters also have stories to tell and are often frontburner with the rest of them. At age 77, Jeanne Cooper is nominated for a Lead Actress Daytime Emmy this year. Last year she won a fricking Lifetime Achievement which generally means the actors career is over. Not for her, she's still getting frontburner work, and no, she isn't...beautiful. Lots of characters aren't beautiful. Men and women and of all ages. Just look at Jeanne for yourself... Oh yes, I remember her. Isn't her character's name Catherine? I seem to recall her being kidnapped and replaced by a doppleganger in a Krystle/Rita stylee. No, I wouldn't describe her as exactly beautiful, although I remember her as looking very glamorous, as most all the characters on all the American daytime soaps I have seen are. Given the production values of daytime soaps, and again remembering that the daytime soap genre is not an ingrained part of our culture the way it is in America, I think the British perception is that these are very cheap looking shows about very glamorous people, which is a strange combination, and one of the reasons we generally find them alien and laughable.


Now I go to Eastenders website and see lots of stereotypical soap beauties, but I guess they're average since they're on a British soap? It's the same thing. There are all types of people on all soaps..

Well, it was you, Chris, who brought up the subject of ugliness on this thread: "This is a part of American culture, who wants to see a show full of ugly people? This is just how it is." I was trying to suggest that this aversion might be symptomatic of a cultural difference which explains why we view your daytime soaps the way we do.

Actually, the casting of the dreadfully bland blonde in EASTENDERS that you pictured is symptomatic of its deterioration. ENDERS has always found room for a pretty face:

http://www.whom.co.uk/jgf/lgf_gill.jpg

but traditionally they have been of the ordinary, non-glamorous variety, as befits a show set in London's arse end. Those that were glamorous were glamorous in a decidedly rough way:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/900000/images/_903679_pat_150.jpg The character who unexpectedly became a national heroine during ENDERS' first ten years was in fact a dumpy school girl who became a single mother.

At the end of the 90s, ENDERS, like CORONATION STREET and BROOKSIDE, fell prey to the trend of "Event TV", in which soap story lines became increasingly sensational and characters more glamorous, but less fully developed. CORRIE has since got its act together. It still has lots of pretty faces, and lots of plain and fat and ugly ones too. http://www.whyment.co.uk/images/4274.jpegI think this suits the UK TV audience better than the US equivalent, as we like to identify with our soap characters rather than aspire to their lifestyles.

I've seen some of DARK SHADOWS. It's completely insane - sort of like ACORN ANTIQUES meets INTERVIEW WITH THE VAMPIRE - and I loved it. If I'm ever rich, I'll get it on DVD.

[James from London]

But I'm seriously confused by the idea that American SOAPS are obsessed with beautiful people, but did this stop you from watching Dallas or Knots or Dynasty? Nope. Was it unrealistic there?

Nope, it didn't stop me from watching, but, yes, I would say they were unrealistic. DALLAS and DYNASTY were always perceived in a tongue-in-cheek way in the UK. As much as we would be drawn into the plots, we would simultaneously be laughing at the absurdity of it all, including the women waking up in the morning or after an operation with perfect hair and in full make up. We just weren't used to seeing that in UK series. Until I discovered the internet, I honestly assumed the rest of the world - including America - perceived these shows, especially DYNASTY, in the same way that we did.


Also I can name loads of UK shows that have attractive casts. The Office, Coupling, Shameless (some), Eastenders, Monarch of the Glen, etc.

I think there's a difference between words like "attractive" and "beautiful", and terms like "too much glamour" and "plastic and unreal", which were what prompted your "Who wants to watch ugly people?" query. (I have tried to suggest reasons why we (the British) might not be adverse to watching "ugly people" in the way that you (the Americans) appear to be.) There is nothing inherently wrong with glamour - pop culture in Britain is increasingly full of it - but glamour masquerading as realism doesn't make sense, and glamour on a low budget just looks weird (unless you're watching porn). THE OFFICE has one, possibly two, very pretty women (Dawn and the boss lady) and one ordinary looking but unaccountably attractive man (Tim), but in no way could it be considered glamorous. I've never really watched COUPLING, but I realise most of the cast are very good looking. As this was conceived as the British answer to FRIENDS, that's hardly surprising. SHAMELESS is a sexy show, but, again, not a glamourous or artificial one. EASTENDERS and MONARCH OF THE GLEN I avoid like the plague.


Why can every other medium get away with it but soaps are slagged off?

We all know, because soaps (both British and American) have such a high turnover, that production values are inevitably often inferior to series with higher budgets and longer shooting schedules. I think that maybe the British public have traditionally tolerated this in return for characters with which we can identify, that reflect our lives and "tell our story". In some ways, CORRIE and ENDERS are, for better or worse, as much a part of the national landscape as the Royal Family. In our eyes, the US daytime soap operas that we have seen look cheap, artificial and strange. This is why we laugh at them. As I've tried to suggest before, there is a cultural divide: US daytime was not made for us and so we do not "get" it.

[JT]

Brits laugh when watching American soaps.

Americans sleep while watching Brit soaps.

Plain and simple.

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

JT I'm not sure if that's the case, but there certainly isn't the crossover market. While US soaps may have been laughed at, they have actually been transported to the US. Even BBCAmerica doesn't really air any of the British soaps. Only Eastenders which they cancelled.

Many people have wondered if one of them would show up on SOAPnet, but still, nothing. I do wish BBCAmerica would do a soap lineup. All they show is gardening shows. The only things I do enjoy are Shameless and The Office (first time viewer) and I HATE they cancelled Top of the Pops! :(

[Droitwich Lloyd]

Brits laugh when watching American soaps.

Americans sleep while watching Brit soaps.

Plain and simple.
My God,yhat's an amazing feat,to be able to sleep AND watch television at the same time! I must move to America at once,clearly your talents are endless! :hello:

[Romain]

I guess I am in the minority then since from what I've seen (which must be about 5 episodes of each, which I admit is not much), I found EastEnders much better than Corrie.

[Alison Carr]

SANTA BARBARA was shown over here in Britain during the day during the late 1980's. It was genuinely appalling.

It was also moved to a middle of the night slot in some regions too.

I actually really liked this show - i remember the earthquake and this character called 'dominic' who i think was really a lady from one of the families who was presumed dead?

It did star some big names though like dame judith anderson, nicholas coster, louise sorel. I wonder how many actors played cc capwell though!

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

I agree Alexis, I think (from three episode I've seen) that Santa Barbara was a GREAT show and I really hope SOAPnet picks it up.

The three episodes I've seen..

Pilot - GREAT intruduction to the entire cast and good sets.
Earthquake - Very exciting and realistic with the perfect balance of comedy and drama.
Eden's Rape - Never have a I seen a rape so realistic, unglamourous and emotional as this one. Marcy Walker was AMAZING here.

Also, some cast members yall might remember are Eileen Davidson (ex-Kristen DAYS, Ashley, Y&R), Marcy Walker (ex-Tangie GL, Liza AMC) or Robin Wright Penn who's a pretty big star.

[JT]

JT I'm not sure if that's the case, but there certainly isn't the crossover market. While US soaps may have been laughed at, they have actually been transported to the US. Even BBCAmerica doesn't really air any of the British soaps. Only Eastenders which they cancelled.

Many people have wondered if one of them would show up on SOAPnet, but still, nothing. I do wish BBCAmerica would do a soap lineup. All they show is gardening shows. The only things I do enjoy are Shameless and The Office (first time viewer) and I HATE they cancelled Top of the Pops! :(
I'd love it if BBC America started airing a soap lineup, only if they air classic episodes on a regular basis as well as current episodes. How many soaps have BBC actually aired anyway? I know Corrie is Granada or whatever and I know that Crossroads was ATV and then Central and then Carlton or something like that...

[James from London]

I agree Alexis, I think (from three episode I've seen) that Santa Barbara was a GREAT show and I really hope SOAPnet picks it up.

The three episodes I've seen..

Pilot - GREAT intruduction to the entire cast and good sets.
Earthquake - Very exciting and realistic with the perfect balance of comedy and drama.
Eden's Rape - Never have a I seen a rape so realistic, unglamourous and emotional as this one. Marcy Walker was AMAZING here.

Ah now, that's interesting. I remember seeing SANTA BARBARA from the beginning back in the late 80s. It was first US daytime serial to be shown over here, and I couldn't believe my eyes! I remember thinking it was possibly the weirdest, fakest, stiffest, cheapest looking programme I'd ever seen. I used to watch it most mornings out of fascination and then feel a bit depressed afterwards, but that's what comes of watching television first thing. It wasn't on for that long, but people still remember it because it was so nuttily bad. I got into a conversation with someone about it only other day and we marvelled and laughed about it.


How many soaps have BBC actually aired anyway?

A few, but EASTENDERS is the only one that's lasted any length of time.

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

If they wanted to, couldn't BBCAmerica get the soaps from other networks for a soap lineup? They already air So Graham Norton which is I think is on a different network int he UK.

It would be interesting to watch.

Also James, I can't disagree more about Santa Barbara, I'm shocked! :D Anyway, I've always thought Home & Away or Neighbours would fit on one of the US networks as a regular soap, but the accents might be too much for network TV.

[Toby]

Nope, it didn't stop me from watching, but, yes, I would say they were unrealistic. DALLAS and DYNASTY were always perceived in a tongue-in-cheek way in the UK. As much as we would be drawn into the plots, we would simultaneously be laughing at the absurdity of it all, including the women waking up in the morning or after an operation with perfect hair and in full make up. We just weren't used to seeing that in UK series. Until I discovered the internet, I honestly assumed the rest of the world - including America - perceived these shows, especially DYNASTY, in the same way that we did.

Hmm... I think that the kitsch/camp elements of DYNASTY were always recognised amongst certain sections of the audience, regardless of geographical location. The E! True Hollywood Story focused on some American nightclubs that held "DYNASTY theme nights" during the 1980's where people came to cheer and boo, treating the series almost like The Rocky Horror Show.

Yes, DALLAS and DYNASTY were perceived as tongue-in-cheek kitsch here in the U.K. DALLAS became cult viewing over here because Terry Wogan used to plug the show on his radio programme, where he was generally just taking the piss out of it. There was almost an element of British post-colonial arrogance to the way DYNASTY and DALLAS were received - oh, those silly Americans - with us laughing at Johnny Foreigner and writing funny letters to POINTS OF VIEW about them.

[Toby]

How many soaps have BBC actually aired anyway?

The BBC always had a rather snooty attitude towards "soap opera", preferring to call programmes "ongoing drama serials". EASTENDERS was really the first ongoing BBC drama to be really marketed as a soap - as late as 1985.

I think that was because the BBC finally realised that the other TV channels had a soap as their "flagship" series - ITV had CORONATION STREET and Channel 4 had BROOKSIDE - and needed a "brand" of their own.

[Toby]

Ah now, that's interesting. I remember seeing SANTA BARBARA from the beginning back in the late 80s. It was first US daytime serial to be shown over here, and I couldn't believe my eyes! I remember thinking it was possibly the weirdest, fakest, stiffest, cheapest looking programme I'd ever seen. I used to watch it most mornings out of fascination and then feel a bit depressed afterwards, but that's what comes of watching television first thing. It wasn't on for that long, but people still remember it because it was so nuttily bad.

SANTA BARBARA was shown over here on ITV as part of a revamped daytime schedule. I do remember watching it, and I still think it was one of the worst pieces of TV I've ever seen.

[JT]

It's funny because SANTA BARBARA is one of the most beloved and most missed shows here in the States.

I think the reason why the UK is so negative towards US soaps is because y'all are used to what you have. You all are used to the way things are done on UK soaps like "Coronation Street" and "EastEnders." For someone who grew up with videotaped soaps with characters who have glamorous clothes and millions of money, US soaps are quite the norm and are usual. But if you grew up watching Corrie or "Emmerdale," with the working class at the forefront, you're used to that, and when you see something different, like the wealthy excesses of "All My Children" and "Santa Barbara," you don't really warm up to them.

But in some cases, the UK does warm up to US soaps. I mean, when you think about it, several US soaps have become hits in the UK, but I can't think of one UK soap that was a hit in the US.

And you all keep saying that "Home and Away" and "Neighbours" are much more USish. I definitely agree about "Neighbours," which I watched on the cable channel Oxygen last year. Unlike "EastEnders," "Neighbours" was able to hold my attention long enough for me to want to come back for the next episode and care for the characters. I might have only watched around 30 or 40 episodes of it, but I still remember most of the characters and storylines. With EE, I watched it for like a month or so, which was like 50 episodes, and I don't really remember ANYTHING happening...

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

I don't remember much of Eastenders either, other than it was really boring and didn't make much sense. From the two episodes of Coranation Street I've seen, it was a much better soap, similar to Y&R.

But not all Daytime soaps are glamourous. Ryan's Hope is about a working class Irish family. The only person who's rich is Delia, and she got lucky with Commodities.

Everybody who's gotten somewhere we've seen go to college and work to get where they are.

The main family, the Ryan's isn't rich by any means. They actually think Delia is nuts for spending the way she does. Currently, in the 1979 episodes airing, Johnny is worried about losing the bar because he gave money to restore the Irish part of the families farm. Now he's putting money into Delia's Commodities, but it's backfiring.

Also, the storylines aren't over the top and the pace isn't bad. The show did begin to decline in 1984 when a new headwriter wrote in an entire new family, the Kirklands, and the show lost focus, but they eventually recovered a couple of years later.

[JT]

Actually, the Kirklands came around in 1982.

RH was very good soap. Very. I saw six episodes of it on SOAPnet in February 2004 and I have a good friend (the guy who runs Memory Book, an RH site) who always keeps me up to date with what's going on the SOAPnet run.

RH had such a great sense for family stories. There was only one core family and all other characters tied to them somehow. Seldom did characters tie from characters tied from the Ryans, at least in the 70s episodes. It was simple. Here is Johnny and Maeve. Here are their children, Frank, Pat, and Mary. Kathleen lives in Chicago. Here is Frank's ex-wife, now Pat's wife, Delia. Here is Mary's husband Jack. Here are the Ryans' friends, Roger Coleridge and his sisters Jill and Faith. And of course, there is Rae Woodard.

Just another reason why I want SOAPnet with a passion...

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

Oh you forgott he brilliant Siobhan Ryan, their other daughter, the wild child. She's originally played by Sarah Felder who is simply amazing. I really wish you could see her right now! She's really good. After they fired her (for stupid reasons), she was played by Ann Gillespie (Kelly's Mom 90210) and Marg Helgenberger from CSI. I don't think they can be Siobhan the way Felder is, something about her is just amazing.

You're right about the families and how they tie together. I love this. At any given time someone can have a scene with another character and it makes perfect sense. The outsiders when they do arrive also make perfect sense.

I really do think it's the best soap I've ever seen, even better than Knots Landing or just as good. They're so different it's hard to compare, but Ryan's Hope is really really amazing when it's good.

BTW, I LOVE the Memory Book site. It has a beautiful layout and is packed full of soooooooo much information!

[James from London]

I think the reason why the UK is so negative towards US soaps is because y'all are used to what you have. You all are used to the way things are done on UK soaps like "Coronation Street" and "EastEnders." For someone who grew up with videotaped soaps with characters who have glamorous clothes and millions of money, US soaps are quite the norm and are usual.

That's exactly what I've been trying to say all along: it's about cultural differences.


But if you grew up watching Corrie or "Emmerdale," with the working class at the forefront, you're used to that, and when you see something different, like the wealthy excesses of "All My Children" and "Santa Barbara," you don't really warm up to them.

Well, we weren't used to curling before the Olympics but now we like watching that. It's just daytime soaps we have a problem with.


I mean, when you think about it, several US soaps have become hits in the UK, but I can't think of one UK soap that was a hit in the US.

DALLAS and DYNASTY are the only US soaps that have been hits in the UK, but US TV shows in general - from I LOVE LUCY to DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES -have always been very popular over here, whereas I'm not sure if any British TV series has ever gotten huge ratings in the States. Two possible reasons for this are (a) the comparatively high quality of US programming we get over here (daytime soaps notwithstanding), and (b) the stereotype of America as a nation of isolationists, not especially interested in what's going on outside of their own country, which may partially explain why you don't have imported TV shows in prime time on your network channels the way we do. I'm not sure, but perhaps it's a combination of both reasons.


And you all keep saying that "Home and Away" and "Neighbours" are much more USish.

NEIGHBOURS and HOME AND AWAY have never struck me as similar to the US soaps. They seem much lighter and far less earnest and melodramatic. NEIGHBOURS is light, frothy fun - harmless escapist nonsense aimed at kids and teenagers. I'm not sure who watches HOME AND AWAY anymore, except my mother.


With EE, I watched it for like a month or so, which was like 50 episodes, and I don't really remember ANYTHING happening...

Yes, I gave up watching EASTENDERS about a year ago. It had become so turgid and slow and incredibly boring.


From the two episodes of Coranation Street I've seen, it was a much better soap, similar to Y&R.

For the life of me, I can't see much similarity between THE STREET and THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS. By sheer coincidence, I was just watching an old video tape and found an episode of Y&R at the end. The "strike a pose" opening credits really made me laugh. The show was as I remembered: a succession of very glamorous couples standing in rooms discussing their relationships and custody battles, plus a woman called Aunt Mimi looking on concerned as her pregnant niece took her own blood pressure. "Maybe you should call a doctor." "I am a doctor!"

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

Oh James that's great! I think that's Mamie and the woman is Dr. Olivia Winters. Mamie was recently fired, but Olivia is still on, but never has a storyline. :( Brings back memories. That was probably when Olivia was pregnant with Nate who's been sitting in his room for over a decade. I can't wait for him to return this summer. :EXIT:

But still, I do think it was very similar to Corrie in that both are high quality and tell multi-generational stories.

Also, that strike a pose opening is completely gone now. That was part of the old Y&R. I guess you'd have to see it now to understand. In Australia, they skipped 4 or 6 years, I forget which, and they were shocked at how much different the show is. They no longer have psychos like Sheila and the over the top Dynastyish stuff they used to have. It's much more home based and realistic. All the families aren't rich either.

The Marsino's - He used to own a strip club but now he's only a bartender. Even though his wife Brittany's pregnant, she has to work as well to help support them.

The Baldwin/Fisher's - This was Joan Van Ark's family and btw, they're all pretty average. Michael is a very successful lawyer, but Kevin doesn't even have a job bc no one will hire him (he's crazy). Gloria, Joan's former character, used to work as a waitress when she was younger, but she married into the Abbott family so she doesn't need money.

JT, Mac and Raul - These are the college kids who, like all college kids aren't loaded. They live together in an apartment and do well for themselves.

The Winters - This African-American family is upper middle class, but we see them work for what they've got and like most middle class people, they do need their jobs.

The only rich families on the show are the Newman's and Abbott's and I certainly buy both of them being rich. The waredrobe is very good which means they all wear expensive clothing and their homes reflect it as well. There's also good use of exterior shots and good outdoor settings to add to the realism.

[Droitwich Lloyd]

JT you do,ofcourse,jest, when you say that 'Santa Barbara' is missed?
I can't believe it was even made never mind watched,then lamented!

[JT]

No I do not jest (who says that word anymore?). It is very very popular in the States among soap fans and is very very missed.

Remember, things are different here. We don't like to be depressed by our soaps (especially the theme songs...boy who the eff wrote the crap known as Coronation Street's theme? it's awful!). We love glamorous soaps. You're just going to have to live with it.

[Droitwich Lloyd]

I love you JT you've got spirit! I quite agree, Coronation St is depressing!

[Droitwich Lloyd]

And my goodness,as yet, this thread has not been closed by moderator Matheson!

[MikeGne]

Well it seems its fine to bash UK Soaps but not American ones! If you have a forum you take the good with the bad and face the critics and defend the show.

If a thread has been closed, thats showing lack of freedom of speech - something soaps have always been proud of promoting - in showing social causes and such.

Not very soap-like to mute an opinion if you ask me. Then again I suppose if someone knocks Crossroads I can then suggest they are anti-British?

Lets face it, there are good and bad soaps all over the world!

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

Mike, this is what I've been saying all along, I'll copy my post in the Help and Bug forum on why I closed the thread. It had nothing to do with having a different opinion, it's the way he expressed it and how he attacked a member. Please don't make assumptions until you know the facts. ;)


As a moderator, I reviewed your posts and decided to close them. Nuff said. I told you why, but I'll tell you again.

At SoapChat.net, everybody is intitled to an opinion regardless of whether or not you agree. I'm one of the biggest defenders of opposing opinions, but it's the way you express them that bother me. You've came off rude and ignorant in both your thread about American Soaps in The Pub and your post on the Knots forum. If any admins or the other moderators wanna review, you will see what I mean.

You last post in your Knots forum thread was offensive to Americans and you were insulting a poster. For both reasons alone I had every right to close this thread.


Quoting Droitwich Lloyd:
Fine Toby, You obviously think that American TAT is better then a gentle pased, British drama, move to America? i'm sure you'll be made welcome by the plastic faced,no soles!
--------------------------------------------

That is an ignorant, rude and extremely prejudice statement. I have no problem with you sharing a different opinion, but as I said earlier, act like an adult and no attacking/prejudice posts.

[Droitwich Lloyd]

That is so terrible, I can't believe I said it. Please accept my most humble apologies,I am after all, only a poor British subject!

[MikeGne]

Yes, I suppose Mr Lloyd I feel you've been watching too much Dynasty and the super-bitch has come out in you.

Now thats bad, you know you'll never do it better than good 'ol Joan Collins! ;)

[Droitwich Lloyd]

I know,i'm sorry for trying and after all she is British and I met Miss Collins in a book shop once and she told me she loved Crossroads and would loved to have played Alexis Richardson!

[Droitwich Lloyd]

The above post, by the way, was a joke!

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

MarlandRulez on Soap Opera Network uploaded some clips from todays episode of The Young and the Restless. If yall wanna see, here they are. It was an amazing episode! Here you'll get to see Michelle Stafford who I consider one of the absolute best actresses of today. She's the redhead, Phyllis.

Anyway...

Sharon goes apeshit on some plastic cups:
http://s32.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2VJZU7P...C414BE5QMSF93A2

Sharon goes apeshit on Phyllis
http://s32.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=10Y9KN4...891BP2JS7EVI2IT

Phyllis sees Daniel
http://s32.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1MG7ZXP...EI2RNGV42BGNBJ1

Ashley bitches at Gloria, then John says Gloria stays (ASHLEY'S EXPRESSION IS PRICELESS)
http://s32.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3VFVDCV...EG0L2U7Q13PV1EG

[JT]

Y&R is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated, IMO. I'm gonna watch today's episode when it airs on my second CBS station in a little while, but I bet those scenes won't be half as interesting as I expect them to be.

AMC's the best when it comes to women going apeshit on each other, IMO.

[ChrisSumnerMatheson]

Oh please, AMC is terrible. The Baby Switch story could've been one of the best, but it lasted for OVER A YEAR, and throughout it stayed on the frontburner which meant nothing happening. This is my problem with AMC. They only use a handful of characters which makes the pace really slow and there's lots of false cliffhangers. ESPECIALLY with that crappy baby switch. Every week Bianca or someone would ALMOST find out but it never happened.

With Y&R, when a character or story is on, the plot moves. Even their biggest stars aren't on everyday and they UTILIZE their ENTIRE cast. Something NONE of the other soaps do as good as Y&R. Especially AMC which is awful to their vets. Palmer and Opal have a son who could be SORASed, but they bring on these new guys and Palmer/Opal NEVER have a storyline, EVER.

AMC is especially bad right now, I think it has it's moments, but with all these exits, the bad pacing/storylines, it's not all that.

[JT]

Oh please, AMC is terrible. The Baby Switch story could've been one of the best, but it lasted for OVER A YEAR, and throughout it stayed on the frontburner which meant nothing happening. This is my problem with AMC. They only use a handful of characters which makes the pace really slow and there's lots of false cliffhangers. ESPECIALLY with that crappy baby switch. Every week Bianca or someone would ALMOST find out but it never happened.

With Y&R, when a character or story is on, the plot moves. Even their biggest stars aren't on everyday and they UTILIZE their ENTIRE cast. Something NONE of the other soaps do as good as Y&R. Especially AMC which is awful to their vets. Palmer and Opal have a son who could be SORASed, but they bring on these new guys and Palmer/Opal NEVER have a storyline, EVER.

AMC is especially bad right now, I think it has it's moments, but with all these exits, the bad pacing/storylines, it's not all that.
Actually, the baby switch storyline lasted all of nine months, which hardly makes up a year. And even if you thought it was a bad storyline, it is OVER. It is in the PAST. DONE. CAPUT. Both babies are with their parents.

AMC doesn't utilize its vets? What the hell are you talking about? Am I not seeing Brooke and Adam, characters who have been with the show for over 20 years, starting up a new romantic storyline? Do I not see Erica and Jack getting married very soon? Do I not see Tad and Adam and David (who I consider a vet, he's been with the show for 8 years) playing front and center in this Di/Dixie story? Ryan (yes, I consider him a vet as well. He has six years under his belt, which is one year less than Maria, who most consider a vet) is on every other day. Not many like him, but he is still indeed a vet being utilized. Myrtle, who is played by the 84-year-old Eileen Herlie, is seen at least five-six times a month (she was in seven episodes in March alone), which is a step up from last year, when we'd see her maybe twice over three months. I won't lie, though. Palmer and Opal are barely seen, but could it be because Jill Larson and James Mitchell don't want a story? When you have other major vets in good storylines, but two aren't, that would be a better explanation than just saying that the writers don't care.

And Y&R utilizes its ENTIRE cast? Tell that to Kate Linder and Patty Weaver. I'm sure they'd love to know it.

AMC has its bad points, but Y&R has its bad points as well. No soap is perfect, and personally, I'm tired of (most, not all) Y&R fans I see going on and on and on and on about how PERFECT it is.

AMC has a very strong connection to its beginnings. Where is Y&R's? How often do you hear the name Brooks mentioned? Or Foster? The show has aboslutely no original cast members left, which is, in my opinion, ridiculous for a show that has only been on the air for 32 years.

Y&R is an okay show, really it is. I mean, I'd take it over OLTL and GH anyday, but I don't personally think that the show deserves all of the praise and fluffing it receives. To many soap fans, myself included, Y&R is just a sixty minute snoozefest.

[Droitwich Lloyd]

I've just read through the postings again, in this thread, i'm glad it caused debate, because it's enabled me to see the American perspective, however, I still think, even the worst EastEnders, beats, if not some early episodes of Dallas, but most certainly Dynasty and Falcon Crest.

[Toby]

I've just read through the postings again, in this thread, i'm glad it caused debate, because it's enabled me to see the American perspective, however, I still think, even the worst EastEnders, beats, if not some early episodes of Dallas, but most certainly Dynasty and Falcon Crest.

And DALLAS, DYNASTY and FALCON CREST all beat "crappy" CROSSROADS. :p

[Droitwich Lloyd]

Well, i'd much rather be stranded on a desert Island with Rosemary, David, Valerie and J.Henry, than Blake, Steven and that He-She Krystal!

[Toby]

Well, i'd much rather be stranded on a desert Island with Rosemary, David, Valerie and J.Henry, than Blake, Steven and that He-She Krystal!

Go on then.

[Droitwich Lloyd]

Go on then.

Toby, and I thought you liked me.