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WalfordMafia
04-08-2005, 01:29 PM
Last night, BBC4's "TV on Trial - 1985", analysed the rather classic early EastEnders episode in which the identity of Michelle Fowler's unborn baby was revealed [and Den became really Dirty - and gained a reputation he could thereafter never quite live up to]. Now i never truly watched EastEnders until the mid/late 90s, I was only born in '84, and have only seen a couple of choice early episodes that are repeated on terrestrial TV (the first episode, the divorce papers, etc). I am always interested though, in investing time in them, simply, for no other reason, than what television storytelling was capable of back then. For example, in this episode: slow, paced, conversational dialogue (it was a mild landmark in that the entire second half of the episode was devoted to only two characters), that contained almost no cuts or edits, and although i felt compelled and interested throughout, when one of the on-screen critics said that if this perticular scene was being presented today, Michelle would have been screaming and crying and have thrown herself in the canal by the end, i realised quite how far things have come. The fact that the premier decades of both Coronation Street & EastEnders were both vastly better written and constructed than either soaps today, with a more superior ensemble of representational characters, is beside the point. The blame can't just lay there, the audience and their attention spans need to be accounted for too.

But this thread isn't about the early days, nor Coronation Street. It's about the state of things in Albert Square, which, although better than this point one year ago (probably in the pits of Ronny Feirrera's Kidney Transplant saga), is still unfortunately lamentable. There is more spark in the writing, characters like Stacey Slater speak with a 'sound' to their voice (i don't mean a cockerneee accent)... she speaks with an individuality, she 'sounds' apart from the mush of all the other non-dimensional characters. It's almost, in terms of characterisation, similar to how Coronation Street was in about 1997, where things happened to one character, but they may as well have happened to any other, because the ramifications and reactions would be almost the same. The best dialogue recently was Stacey Slater walking round the Square with Ruby Allen, telling her about all the women in the community: "...the two old witches in the pub are well up them selves, the one in the caff is all-right, but a bit up herself, the old dragon in the launderette, god, she's WELL up herself. as for my cousin Zoe, she's so far up herself she's coming out the other end..." or something like that. It was an individual characters voice, her opinions. It wasn't attacted to a plot, or about a plot, as every single line of dialogue in EastEnders has been for about a year. It was simply refreshing.

Another reason, coming to the intent of this thread, for the 'one month hiatus' i suggested in my previous post in Pamela's "Period Soaps" thread, is just because, I think, EastEnders post-Mitchell, needs a rest. It hit a nasty fatigue at the very end of 2002, managed to be buoyed through 2003 on the sensations of Kat & Alfie, the return of Den etc, but hit the wall big time, in 2004. The 90s was EastEnders decade, that can never be taken away. It coyuld do almost anything, tell almost any story, because its writing, its group of characters, it's 'world' were so well formed and thoroughly coloured, it could reach into anything (erm, except unknown Irish family members). Yes, it made mistakes, but it was number one by a mile. It's always the soap that, when it's good it's the best, and when it's bad its the worst. It's as tempestuous as Den & Angie. It found its groove in the very early 90s, when the Mitchell's arrived (hence my defining it now "post-Mitchell"), and powered by them, Peggy the Matriarch and her boys the muscle of the Square, flew through the 90s like it was on a mad adrenaline rush, and it never really felt like it was trying, or pushing, it just managed it. The 'Fowler Years' merged effortlessly with the 'Mitchell Years' to evolve Walford into a more densely populated, intricately constructed painting. The 'Slater Years', began in 2000, and for two years the same happened... i remember some pinpoint moments where the same happened, these three alpha families were intertwined effortlessly - for example in the New Years 2001/02 episode, where Little Mo Slater was baby-sitting Phil Mitchell in Pauline Fowlers house, simple, but it tied them together right up until Mo's trial, where Phil & Pauline gave evidence.

But the boat rocked, as I said, somewhere between 2003 & 2004, and it was a bigger rock than any soap or show which has been that big, has experienced. The wind was totally out of it's sails, and that is the adrenaline which is the lifeblood of the show, the storytelling, the writing. Everything about it was weak. It is nowhere near fixed, but is definitely past the worst (well, the immediate past two weeks have been very poor again, so who knows) that it was in last year, and although totally over-the-top, ham-fisted, contrived and fictitious, the 20th Anniversary plot - the Second Death of Den - and the weeks that led up to that hour long episode (well, through from the Christmas episodes, covering the Sam Mitchell double-crossing by Marcus Christie, and the Death of Paul Truman) were almost consistently well written and acted. It was like the show had woken up, it had a beating pulse. But again, like I said, it's lapsed. Who knows, but to me, this brief positive spell proved that EastEnders isn't the dead horse it was condemned as by the press last year, and although the 'Post-Mitchell' shadow is a long one, I think the soap, above and beyond all the others, has the potential for the greatest depth of story-telling, and a future. It just needs tro re-establish itself, and re-acclimatise it's audience to a different pace of storytelling. It works best, by record, when it's going at full pace. But i think it has been shown that full pace isn't necessarily best for the show. What do you guys think?

Pamela Barnes
04-08-2005, 04:35 PM
I watched the show on BBC4 and the thing that interested me was how they recognized that Eastenders is now plot driven rather than character driven. I think Corrie is the soap which leads the way in characterization.

Eastenders really has lost its way in my opinion especially with the women characters. Im not quite sure whats missing but for example the Miller family, the kids are great but Rosie is lacking in something which past Walford women had.

Carol Jackson is an example of a great woman character, so is Michelle and even Kathy Beale. Those characters with an edge seem to be lacking.

Now the show seems to have cliched characters, Rosie to play the protective down to earth mother, Stacy to play the bad teen, Ruby the good teen. But outside of those blueprints there is nothing much going on. The character of Stacy is only saved by the wonderful little actress playing her but how many more months of stealing of apples and 'bling' do we have to be tortured with before we get to see beneath the skin of these characters.

Toby
05-01-2005, 11:47 AM
Last night, BBC4's "TV on Trial - 1985", analysed the rather classic early EastEnders episode in which the identity of Michelle Fowler's unborn baby was revealed [and Den became really Dirty - and gained a reputation he could thereafter never quite live up to]. Now i never truly watched EastEnders until the mid/late 90s, I was only born in '84, and have only seen a couple of choice early episodes that are repeated on terrestrial TV (the first episode, the divorce papers, etc). I am always interested though, in investing time in them, simply, for no other reason, than what television storytelling was capable of back then. For example, in this episode: slow, paced, conversational dialogue (it was a mild landmark in that the entire second half of the episode was devoted to only two characters), that contained almost no cuts or edits, and although i felt compelled and interested throughout, when one of the on-screen critics said that if this perticular scene was being presented today, Michelle would have been screaming and crying and have thrown herself in the canal by the end, i realised quite how far things have come.

This is an excellent post. The episode where Michelle goes to the canal, and we learn, finally, that Den is the father of her baby - after months of thinking it could've been anyone from Ali Osman to Tony Carpenter - is still one of the best pieces of British TV drama from the 1980's.

Toby
05-02-2005, 09:57 AM
One thing that I loved about EASTENDERS in its early days was the expert balance between humour and tragedy. There was always a tragi-comic vibe about the characters.

Not only were Den and Angie Watts the most dysfunctional married couple on British TV since Basil and Sybil Fawlty, they were also often just as funny.

You had Arthur and Pauline being oppressed by battle-axe Lou and Arthur seeking solace in his beloved allotment. Poor old Lofty the perpetual victim, Ethel's malapropisms and Dot putting on a posh telephone voice when working for Ali Osman's taxi company.

Michelle and Den's meeting on the canal towpath was almost a dry run for the famous "two-hander" episodes - the thirty minute long fight between Angie and Den culminating in Angie's most famous line: "I've got six months to live!" and the beautifully written episode where Dot and Ethel babysit Martin Fowler and reminisce about the bad old days of living in the Square during WW2.

With those episodes (and others), EASTENDERS really did have the dramatic depth of a mini-PLAY FOR TODAY, as well as integrating its characterisation into long-term serial drama.

Toby
05-04-2005, 08:38 PM
Play EASTENDERS Top Trumps here. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/fun_games/trumps/)

James from London
05-04-2005, 09:29 PM
In a search for inspiration, I watched EASTENDERS yesterday for the first time since Den died. Some of it I quite liked. Jim teaching Dot to drive in the living room made me laugh. But then, when Dot starting driving round the Square and the man from DAD'S ARMY and the man from LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR started pissing themselves like this was the funniest thing they'd ever seen, it felt like overkill. They might as well have been holding up placards saying "THIS IS A COMEDY SCENE - LAUGH!!!", which made me not want to laugh. Then, later on, there was a scene where Ian and his girlfriend Jane went to see Sonia's baby's bereaved grand mother who I thought gave a very convincing, subtle performance. But again it was spoiled when Ian, having left the two women alone together, crept back in in time to hear a soppy speech about love from Jane, which she was supposedly delivering to the grand mother, only she kept looking at Ian, who looked all teary and emotional like he was holding up a placard saying, "THIS IS AN EMOTIONAL SCENE - CRY!!!", which made me not want to cry. I just kept wondering why the older woman hadn't noticed him walk back into her house. The one scene I really liked was between the father and son who can't read. I thought it was quite touching, and neither of them held up any placards saying anything, probably because they can't spell.

Toby
05-23-2005, 07:43 PM
http://www.tvannuals.co.uk/images/eastenders_1989_big.jpg

memsey
05-24-2005, 09:21 AM
pauline folwer how many of them are in our families. def one in mine. johnny allen get some feelings how can anyone be so cold this is based on real life but what council will leave the house open like that to the millers!come on!!!!!

Droitwich Lloyd
05-24-2005, 09:24 AM
Thankfully, there is no Pauline Fowler in my family.

WalfordMafia
05-29-2005, 04:05 PM
James, I revisited one of our old sprawling EastEnders dissection posts over on the Dallas Board ("EastEnders Does a Miss Ellie", or something like that), and besides realising quite how hot-headed I was when I was Colby, one paragraph of one of your posts struck me:

"....Do you remember the Chapmans - the nasty family who bumped off Pete Beale about ten years ago but were never done for it? I always thought they'd make an interesting addition to the Square, not in a contrived "three generations all suddenly moving into one house" way, but by very gradually infiltrating the Square, individually buying up businesses and getting involved with the locals. I think it would be interetsting to look at what the real legacy of those sixties' crime families is in the 21st Century. Perhaps some of the family would still be inside, some would still be crooked, while others are trying to carve a new identity. But make them a real family, who just happen to belong to a criminal underworld - an East End version of THE SOPRANOS perhaps. And because of their history, there would automatically be ties to the Fowlers and Pat, and who knows who else?...."

Are you thinking what i'm - Johnny Allen - thinking? Ok, so I know it doesn't have quite the same idea, and I still think your idea of exploring an evolved old-London Gangster family is a brilliant idea, but to an extent, I think you must have been rubbing your crystal balls the day you posted this. So how effective do you think the Allen's have been since appearing on the show? They have ties to the old Square - specifically Pat, but also Dot/Pauline - and a very rich immediate back story (the fire), and an interesting dynamic in the family relation between Johnny & Ruby (she isn't just his beloved daughter because she's his daughter, as Charlie Slater loves everyone in his family almost unconditionally. There is quite an intense, but very warped and disturbed love between father & daughter, and the dead mother & sister). Tina has been a bit of a wet-lettuce, and is the weakest link in the chain, but that's because the character isn't that well conceived as a person (i like the idea of him having a mistress, but she seems a bit characterless).

James from London
05-29-2005, 07:38 PM
That's interesting, Walford Colby Mania. I haven't really seen anything of Johnny Allen apart from the episode where he pushed the man off the thing, but I may have a closer look. I saw a bit today, with some kids on an estate taunting a young mum by doing Vicky Pollard impressions. That looked fresh and interesting.

WalfordMafia
05-30-2005, 03:19 AM
Mafia, not Mania, James. Ugh! I might turn in to a bitch again at this rate!!

Anyways, about a two weeks ago, the Allen's had their 'spotlight' week, where their story - specifically, the fire which killed Ruby's sister Scarlett, and their mother, Johnny's wife. It was a fantastic week for the show, in my most humblest of opinions, with great (if stagey, and characteristically un-subtle) performances from Ruby & Tina. I hope they continue to explore the characters and this story further, so you can see what I mean. If they don't, i'll be dissapointed, as it's forged a good - if a little blurred and murky - underline to Walford's past. Johnny arrived in January in the Trueman's shop asking is "Patricia Harris" still lived in the area, and thus, within a few weeks and upon their introduction, it was clear Johnny and Pat had some seriously interwoven history, which still remains unexplored. Both Pauline Fowler and Dot Branning have made multiple comments to others about "that Jonathan Allen", and "what a type he used to be, way back when". That on one side, and 'the fire' on the other, Johnny and his inclusion have proven quite a novelty, and one quite suited to 'EastEnders' as a show, and a fictional stage.

Also, i thought i'd say that the Miller family, and their plot over the past week (aside from the rediculous baptism of baby Aleesha-Beyonce in the kitchen sink), have been incredibly interesting. Moving them on to the council estate flats has worked wonders, and has given them a chance to inhabit their own enviromnemt, where they work best, instead of them having to be forced in to Albert Square like a cardboard cut-out square peg. There have of course been ham-fisted moments (the baptish, and Leo's dad trying to run down Keith in Clint's ice-cream van), but, as an environment for the characters, it worked well. Monday & Tuesdays episode, which centred closer on the Millers rather than the Alfie & Lil Mo and the Return of Kat plot which came to the fore later in the week, actually worked much better. All in all, very refreshing.

And i'm quite gutted you missed the weeks that explored the Allen family, because I get the feeling you'd have appreciated their storytelling James, over and above the vacuous dross we've seen for a while. It wasn't perfect, but it was such a step up for the scripting and storytelling on the show. Johnny hasn't found his happy medium in the Square (since he arrived and swept Walford up in his control, and murdered Andy, he became a sort of total non-ganster, which makes his seem awkward instead of complex), but Ruby reflects off him and has been enforced by a brilliant performance from the young actress throughout.

Toby
05-30-2005, 10:51 PM
James, I revisited one of our old sprawling EastEnders dissection posts over on the Dallas Board ("EastEnders Does a Miss Ellie", or something like that)

UK Soap Does A Miss. Ellie (http://www.soapchat.burtonhosting.com/showthread.php?t=108582&highlight=Soap)

Excellent thread. :)

James from London
06-01-2005, 02:53 PM
Mafia, not Mania, James. Ugh!
Whoops, slip of the keyboard!

david1987
06-03-2005, 10:12 PM
I gave up on EE around the time of that Nana Moon/Wilfred storyline. I've watched a couple of episodes since (that one that was just Den & Dot, bits around christmas, Den getting killed [again]). It's like Family Affairs & Hollyoaks now, utter <censored>